Is death the only way out?

@rambo phil,

Your theory seems to ignore those people who work themselves out of such states or situations.

With respect to those who never work their way out of such states or situations, why do you consider these experiences to be less valuable than those who never experience such states or situations?

1 Reply

@rambo phil,

rambo wrote:

I had a talk with my friend about depression and it lead to the subject of escape by death. My theory is that death is the only way out for people who feels that the odds in life/situation they are in are too great for them to overcome or could not see any other way out. People that have absolutely no reason/purpose to live or to survive. Lastly, death is for people who has lost hope for anything good in all humanity. Does anyone here have any other answer to this?

Surely the purpose of living is to overcome these problems..dont you think we could all be having the same problems ..if there is ever such thing as sin this is surely it..go to Africa give your life to those poor souls and then you may find a reason to live..Suicide is the refuge of the selfish..

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@xris,

rambo wrote:

I had a talk with my friend about depression and it lead to the subject of escape by death. My theory is that death is the only way out for people who feels that the odds in life/situation they are in are too great for them to overcome or could not see any other way out.

Or they could cheer up. Easier said than done, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that an option other than death does exist. Living is a great option.

rambo wrote:

People that have absolutely no reason/purpose to live or to survive.

Such a person does not and has never existed. People only think they are in such a situation.

rambo wrote:

Lastly, death is for people who has lost hope for anything good in all humanity. Does anyone here have any other answer to this?

Yeah, to quote Bob Marley:
"If you're not living good you gotta travel wide."
This echoes what xris suggests.

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@validity,

validity wrote:

Your theory seems to ignore those people who work themselves out of such states or situatiions.

With respect to those who never work their way out of such states or situations, why do you consider these experiences to be less valuable than those who never experience such states or situations?

Those people who worked themselves out of their state or situation does not apply because the have the answer or solution. I never placed any value to the experiences. What I'm implying is death might possibly the only solution.

xris wrote:

Surely the purpose of living is to overcome these problems..dont you think we could all be having the same problems ..if there is ever such thing as sin this is surely it..go to Africa give your life to those poor souls and then you may find a reason to live..Suicide is the refuge of the selfish..

I don't see how it would be a sin if there is such a thing. I see it as a possible form of an answer/solution. I really don't think the purpose of living is to overcome problems but would be another discussion.... I never understood how people view suicide as a refuge, it's just another answer
to a problem maybe a "poor" one but still an answer.

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@rambo phil,

I have resorted to suicide and it obviously didn't work. Death is only the answer for those who give up. I enjoy my life now for what it is. I obviously couldn't have had I taken it away. Sure, suicide is an answer, but it is not a very good one. It is a rewarding experience overcoming the bullshit that live throws at you. It even reaffirms purpose for existence.

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@rambo phil,

rambo wrote:

Those people who worked themselves out of their state or situation does not apply because the have the answer or solution. I never placed any value to the experiences. What I'm implying is death might possibly the only solution.

Then death is not the only way out as those who achieve relief prove. Even those who do not overcome the states or situations at all may find that hope that they will offers a tangible resolution.

1 Reply

@rambo phil,

rambo wrote:

Those people who worked themselves out of their state or situation does not apply because the have the answer or solution. I never placed any value to the experiences. What I'm implying is death might possibly the only solution.

I don't see how it would be a sin if there is such a thing. I see it as a possible form of an answer/solution. I really don't think the purpose of living is to overcome problems but would be another discussion.... I never understood how people view suicide as a refuge, it's just another answer
to a problem maybe a "poor" one but still an answer.

It is a sin not to an imagined god but to those who suffer the consequences..every act creates ripples and suicide creates a tidal wave of effects on those who are close to those cowards who take the easy path...Its not courageous but a self interested selfish act with little regard for those who remain.. Im not immune to certain sufferings physical or mental that could result in suicide and i have every sympathy and i do not condemn them..BUT for someone to say life aint what i want it to be so ill top myself i have none at all..

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@validity,

All have made good, salient points, but I'd like to add some of my perspective if I might. Unfortunately, if I'm to be honest - this issue cuts two ways with me. The way I view a mature opinion is that for any subject wherein there exists a contradiction; that this too, must be acknowledged. [INDENT] That it is selfish or a sin is, to my mind, completely irrelevant. Both concepts are all-inclusive or pinpoint specific, depending on whom you ask. As such, they can be defined as completely-relative concepts existing only in the mind of those who decide to judge and therefore have no meaning to those not inside that mindset.
[/INDENT]This is a dangerous subject. To advocate suicide (indeed, to even acknowledge it as a viable option) encourages an act which; by definition, is self-destructive. I can't and don't advocate it as a viable option. I will say this: I can easily imagine a state where the tortured, scarred and confused mind would see no other way out - no other method for ending the pain.

How much 'over the edge' is this?: It is the right of every being, as an assertion of self-agency, to terminate their own existence?

This is a dangerous position to forward; but can it be ethically denied? If we are to have any rights over our bodies (either by popular assent, laws or systems of acceptance or prohibition) at all and are not 'allowed' to exercise this act of self-determination, then what is left? How might my right, over what happens with my body, be better respected by others or otherwise exercised?
Depending on your belief system, you may not be going to any better place; indeed, may not even be 'ending' the pain.
My belief system says, "Yes, it'll end. But in doing so all you really accomplish is to obliterate any possibility for things getting better".
There are cases - I believe - wherein mental and/or physical can exist that justify early, self-directed or assisted termination.

Any philosophical position that categorically denies the right to self-termination by the informed and sane (insomuch as that term can have any meaning or yardstick with which to judge) undercuts agency of the self.

So yea; agree for the most part with all that's been said. But to my mind compassion demands the acknowledgment of (at least) the possibility of a condition that's so painful, so dire, so twisted in agony or hurt that suicide could be seen as the only way out by good, sane and thoughtful people - at least that's my considered opinion. In any case...

While we kick around the implications and various sides to the issue here, I'd like to show my wanton hypocrisy here by saying that MY advice to any such person would be:[INDENT]Sure, it's your right and I respect. But don't; just don't! Give your life a chance. Do this and the only thing you'll guarantee is that your life here won't get any better."
[/INDENT]Thanks

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@xris,

xris wrote:

Surely the purpose of living is to overcome these problems..dont you think we could all be having the same problems ..if there is ever such thing as sin this is surely it..go to Africa give your life to those poor souls and then you may find a reason to live..Suicide is the refuge of the selfish..

Interesting. In all due respect, I think suicide is a despair in which no light can be seen at the end of the tunnel for an individual. It is impossible for us to know what is in the mind of those who see no way out and therefore impossible to come to any conclusion as to it being selfish or anything else. All we do know for sure is there is no quality of life whatsoever in the mind of one who wants to die. More importantly your remedy to witness those who no doubt have it worse is not the answer, IMO. That leads to a very slippery slope in which we can only find solace in the fact that our misery is not as bad as another's. That helps neither, only exacerbates both . For what it's worth,
William

1 Reply

@William,

William wrote:

Interesting. In all due respect, I think suicide is a despair in which no light can be seen at the end of the tunnel for an individual. It is impossible for us to know what is in the mind of those who see no way out and therefore impossible to come to any conclusion as to it being selfish or anything else. All we do know for sure is there is no quality of life whatsoever in the mind of one who wants to die. More importantly your remedy to witness those who no doubt have it worse is not the answer, IMO. That leads to a very slippery slope in which we can only find solace in the fact that our misery is not as bad as another's. That helps neither, only exacerbates both . For what it's worth,
William

Im not disagreeing with you..the utter despair certain souls find themselves in for whatever reason has my deepest sympathy and my heart goes out to them and i would never condemn them..but for the sake of.. goes I...My opinion is on those who have a little difficulty..my opinion has been coloured recently by a certain soul who had money problems committed suicide in the most terrible of ways..he did by letters encouraged to be found by two young female family members whose memories of their uncle means of passing will be branded onto their memories for ever.. I may be over critical of these weak souls but i have seen so many parents sons daughters husbands wives left in such deep sorrow by these cowardly acts my humanity is less than it should..

1 Reply

@xris,

Of course suicide is selfish - to take one's own life assumes that the life belongs to you. That's selfishness: to believe that you live your life for your own sake and have the right to end that life if you please. Heck, it's the definition of selfish. Suicide is the most selfish action man can perform; it's the ultimate act of asserting one's ownership over one's life.

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@rambo phil,

When it comes down to it, it is YOUR life regardless. Whatever you decide to do with it is a personal choice and a choice others have to accept.

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@rambo phil,

rambo wrote:

When it comes down to it, it is YOUR life regardless. Whatever you decide to do with it is a personal choice and a choice others have to accept.

Not really. If a man has a wife and or children, if his parents, who created him, are still living, his life is not his own.
That's what makes it selfish.
Others just have to accept? Yeah, that's rude alright. Very rude indeed.

1 Reply

@ParadoxHaze,

ParadoxHaze wrote:

Not really. If a man has a wife and or children, if his parents, who created him, are still living, his life is not his own.
That's what makes it selfish.
Others just have to accept? Yeah, that's rude alright. Very rude indeed.

This brings up an interesting point--that an individual is never a separate entity. In some way, others are bound to his/her existence and make up parts of the individual.

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@rambo phil,

rambo wrote:

When it comes down to it, it is YOUR life regardless. Whatever you decide to do with it is a personal choice and a choice others have to accept.

Exactly the selfish response i expected...Is your mother your mother? Do you realy think you live in isolation? do you think you have responsibilities at all to your fellow man?

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

Exactly the selfish response i expected...Is your mother your mother? Do you realy think you live in isolation? do you think you have responsibilities at all to your fellow man?

I would also agree that individual (or part of him) is "never a separate entity".
But taken this into account; then you could also say that it was them who drove the individual into this position in the first place.

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@proV,

proV wrote:

I would also agree that individual (or part of him) is "never a separate entity".
But taken this into account; then you could also say that it was them who drove the individual into this position in the first place.

Anything is possible and we all bare the consequences of our actions...Is my pain less or more than yours ? We are all figures of destiny and fate bares down on us at times,its not what we are given its how we respond..I dont judge the individual im merely stating my opinion .I have been tested, but how do i judge others pain? Its the cold description of a suicidal decision a certain poster posted that gave me reason to respond..I can only say life is a gift and it should cherished..

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@proV,

proV wrote:

I would also agree that individual (or part of him) is "never a separate entity".
But taken this into account; then you could also say that it was them who drove the individual into this position in the first place.

I agree, people say that when you have bad a bad decision you should take responsibility and that it was your fault so you have to do what you have to do.

However when someone does something great people will say give credit where credit is due. To thank everyone who made this possible, let it be family, friends, co-worker, partner, jesus, ect.

So logically when someone makes a bad decision or is pushed into a suicidal state, perhaps humans should avoid pinning it and give credit where it is due.

1 Reply

@Mara phil,

Mara wrote:

I agree, people say that when you have bad a bad decision you should take responsibility and that it was your fault so you have to do what you have to do.

However when someone does something great people will say give credit where credit is due. To thank everyone who made this possible, let it be family, friends, co-worker, partner, jesus, ect.

So logically when someone makes a bad decision or is pushed into a suicidal state, perhaps humans should avoid pinning it and give credit where it is due.

I say its too gracious on the sinner and too judgemental on those who could be blamed...its a selfish act and we can never condone it only cry for the sorrow of it..

1 Reply

Is death the only way out?

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