0
   

The brutality by NAZI German against USSR prisoners of

 
 
Dave Allen
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2010 08:33 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;157951 wrote:
Well, this is all a question of fact. I am satisfied, on the basis of my reading, that the Holocaust was unique because the motive was entirely racist. Do you think that in the case of the Armenians or the others, racism was the complete motive or not?

At brass tacks - yeah, particularly with the Tutsis vs Hutus and the Tasmanians. You might object to "race" being the deciding factor of the Tutsis and Hutus, but an African could reason the same way about Germans and Jews I suppose.

I would quibble over Native Americans either way, I don't think it's cut and dried - it was ruthless competition with racist overtones between mismatched sides, but that's not my idea of genocide.

I think people were happy enough to scapegoat the Armenians "as a folk" and I see little difference between that and the Jews or Gypsies in Nazi Germany really.
0 Replies
 
William
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2010 10:22 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan your obsession with the Nazi's is becoming tiring. That war ended 64 years ago and most are dead. Why in the hell do you keep bringing it up again. Do you want to resurrect that hate again? Damn!

All that is written about that war is propaganda. All of it from all sides. No one can claim victory or reason from it; so what in the hell are you wishing to accomplish? For someone to approach the bench and say "I'm sorry"? Ok, so they do, now what? Please answer that question for me? Just who are we going to crucify?

All we can hope Alan is that we all learn something from that. It's like God said, "Ok, you want to fight, here, I give you something you can really fight with", and voila..................the atomic bomb! The cat out the hat. "Now see what you can do with that? You want to raise hell, I give you something to expedite the matter. You want to travel at the speed of light, I'll give you something that will enable you to go to hell faster!"

Damn it!!!!

William
Deckard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2010 11:42 am
@William,
Genocides in history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2010 11:49 am
@William,
William;157981 wrote:
Alan your obsession with the Nazi's is becoming tiring. That war ended 64 years ago and most are dead. Why in the hell do you keep bringing it up again. Do you want to resurrect that hate again? Damn!

All that is written about that war is propaganda. All of it from all sides. No one can claim victory or reason from it; so what in the hell are you wishing to accomplish? For someone to approach the bench and say "I'm sorry"? Ok, so they do, now what? Please answer that question for me? Just who are we going to crucify?

All we can hope Alan is that we all learn something from that. It's like God said, "Ok, you want to fight, here, I give you something you can really fight with", and voila..................the atomic bomb! The cat out the hat. "Now see what you can do with that? You want to raise hell, I give you something to expedite the matter. You want to travel at the speed of light, I'll give you something that will enable you to go to hell faster!"

Damn it!!!!

William
Certain wounds are hard to heal. Its not that long ago , we should air it every now and then. Lest we forget. I think god gets more attention without evidence, should we exclude him from debate?
0 Replies
 
Marat phil
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2010 02:49 pm
@Alan McDougall,
M-r Xris, you believe in theory of higher race (culture & civilisation superiority) ?
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 01:18 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;157542 wrote:
May I ask my you constantly whine in multiple threads about the same thing?

Why are you so obsessed with that 1 thing in history? There has been many masscars.


Please allow me to whine as you call it about the very worst acts of depravity in all of human history. Maybe the holocaust meant nothing to you, but I had a Jewish mother which would have led to me being murdered by that agent of death NAZI Germany and its depraved leader Adolf Hitler
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 02:29 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;159490 wrote:
Please allow me to whine as you call it about the very worst acts of depravity in all of human history. Maybe the holocaust meant nothing to you, but I had a Jewish mother which would have led to me being murdered by that agent of death NAZI Germany and its depraved leader Adolf Hitler
You have a sick approach to this tragic encounter.

You are overly emotional in your preception, and you should know that overly emotional people will bear grudge, escelate conflicts ..instead of solving conflicts and bring peace. You who feel so much selfpity are the scurge of the world. You are a disgrace to your god.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 07:31 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;159494 wrote:
You have a sick approach to this tragic encounter.

You are overly emotional in your preception, and you should know that overly emotional people will bear grudge, escelate conflicts ..instead of solving conflicts and bring peace. You who feel so much selfpity are the scurge of the world. You are a disgrace to your god.
What nasty little man you are, you never fail to prove your contemptibility. You creep as easily as you condemn , your abusive but cant stand being abused..be off with you. Oh now run to the mods and ask for assistance and cry "im pursued" ...
0 Replies
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 07:40 am
@Marat phil,
Race and Culture are not the same by my observtions. Yust like race will breeding become less important, reality can change fast. Flexible young people bring the future.

Over the years The Netherlands celebrate Bevrijdingsdag, Day of Liberty !

Liberty from NAZI ideologie but also Freedom of Speech en our liberal Constitution

The Germn Ambassdor does not attend...not invited because lobbygroup.:whoa-dude:
0 Replies
 
jgweed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 08:29 am
@Alan McDougall,
While one can understand that feelings about this subject can be strong, I would hope that Members could find it possible to allow their feelings about personal courtesy to become strong enough to overcome such passion. We should learn from repeated examples in history that a lack of respect for the Other is the first step to a complete disregard for their being human beings at all.
John
Administrator
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 05:37 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;159494 wrote:
You have a sick approach to this tragic encounter.

You are overly emotional in your preception, and you should know that overly emotional people will bear grudge, escelate conflicts ..instead of solving conflicts and bring peace. You who feel so much selfpity are the scurge of the world. You are a disgrace to your god.

Overly emotional people often demand justice in small things so the injustice does not have a chance to grow... The injustice in Germany did not begin with Hitler... Bismark for one, of Prussia, bagan so much of the injustice and even the political atmospher that made hitler possible, but since, like hitler, most of his enemies were socialists, or laborites, and his friends were junkers...One was like the other... The West even enbraced Hitller at first because h as such a rabid enemy of communism... But he was really against all social progress directed at social justice...
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 09:38 pm
@jgweed,
jgweed;159564 wrote:
While one can understand that feelings about this subject can be strong, I would hope that Members could find it possible to allow their feelings about personal courtesy to become strong enough to overcome such passion. We should learn from repeated examples in history that a lack of respect for the Other is the first step to a complete disregard for their being human beings at all.
Wrong! What Alan McDougall does, is to promote blind hate, grudge and a clear 1 sided discrimination.

He uses such strong words as genocide, when it was a massacar.

How would you feel if you have been to court and trial many decades earlier and still being haunted for your past crimes? Least in Denmark politicians activily speak of forgiveness on TV, that people shouldn't bear grudge to a person who already have had his punishment, else ..what good is a official punishment if the poeple doesn't care about it and wants to exact their own punishment?

And specially for those who have been innocently accused and trialed? We just had such case a few months ago where 3 boys had been released for false accusation of rape, after 1 year++ of prison.

Is blind hate speeches, discrimination ..etc, really what this forum wants to promote?

Too often I'v seen in friends, in marriged couples, on job how people blindly discriminate, hate eachother, and activly seek to bring harm to eachother ..for what? ..usually for insignificant things, they often can't stop, can't help themselfs in this world of hate, and has to have a person outside to stop them, else this selfish hate will continue forever.

Imo Alan McDougall should be prohibited to make such threads with no discussion value, ofcause he could make such thread if he actually wanted a discussion of given subject.
Many may mistake many of his topics for being informative historical display, when it's only 1 sided heavily biased hatespeech.

I have specificly asked Alan McDougall what role Hitler had in the Holocaust, which he couldn't account for, but had based an entire thread on how evil Hitler was with this Holocaust.
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 11:32 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;159494 wrote:
You have a sick approach to this tragic encounter.

You are overly emotional in your preception, and you should know that overly emotional people will bear grudge, escelate conflicts ..instead of solving conflicts and bring peace. You who feel so much selfpity are the scurge of the world. You are a disgrace to your god.


You seem to want to trade insults instead of dialog in a meaning full manner
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 12:16 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;159800 wrote:
You seem to want to trade insults instead of dialog in a meaning full manner
Then make a topic that actually promotes such thing, if you observe in 99% other of my posts, I actually discuss things.
0 Replies
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 12:42 am
@Fido,
Fido;159714 wrote:
Overly emotional people often demand justice in small things so the injustice does not have a chance to grow... The injustice in Germany did not begin with Hitler... Bismark for one, of Prussia, bagan so much of the injustice and even the political atmospher that made hitler possible, but since, like hitler, most of his enemies were socialists, or laborites, and his friends were junkers...One was like the other... The West even enbraced Hitller at first because h as such a rabid enemy of communism... But he was really against all social progress directed at social justice...


Everybody makes mistakes. The father and grandfather from our Queen served in the SS. Since they did not kill any-one they could marry our Princesses. Now our Prince married a daughter from the Argentine junta. She is sweet but not improving the lineage of our future queen, Amalia.

IMO the Familily would thought un-suited as Stadtholders by many Burgers of The Netherlands. Wonder what receipts there will be in the Private Library of the Royal House; lockheed will pop up. Did Family Oranje pay back the millions ?

I know it;s peanuts but I want to prove my point. There is law and there is justice. Events can be awfull, legal and immoral at the same time. Nazi's are still round, ask Prince Henry why he dressed up in an ss-uniform for "fun". Realize justice is not the same for every-one !
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 12:47 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;159842 wrote:
Nazi's are still round, ask Prince Henry why he dressed up in an ss-uniform for "fun". Realize justice is not the same for every-one !
Prince Henry dressed up in a desert uniform, which was from Erwin Rommel, known as the "last knight" as he behaved shivel on the battlefield. Even his enemies he fought regarded him and respected him, as he personally oversaw the prisoners and reprimanded the guards for not observing the rights prisoners have.
0 Replies
 
Dave Allen
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 02:41 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;159780 wrote:
Wrong! What Alan McDougall does, is to promote blind hate, grudge and a clear 1 sided discrimination.

He uses such strong words as genocide, when it was a massacar.

Well, they aren't mutually exclusive terms. It was an attempt at wiping out people based on the perception of what they were "as a folk" - that's genocide by definition really.

You could argue he didn't complete the genocide - but the final solution left more European Jews dead than alive for no reason beside prejudice. In terms of scale and the coldness of the industrial processes involved I'd say it was unprecedented as a genocidal act.

Quote:
I have specificly asked Alan McDougall what role Hitler had in the Holocaust, which he couldn't account for, but had based an entire thread on how evil Hitler was with this Holocaust.

I think Alan's unlettered handwringing over the (caps lock on)NAZIS(caps lock off) is fairly pathetic, but the thread on the whole has had some interesting stuff on it.

What role did Hitler have?

He founded a party who campaigned on an explicitly anti-semitic agenda as spelled out in their manifesto and his own autobiography, he certainly gave the go-ahead for Kristalnacht, the ghettoisation of Jews, and the subsequent imprisonment of Jews within concentration camps.

Historians debate over whether or not he personally conceived of the final solution or approved of how it was to be undertaken, but a number of primary sources state that he was well aware of the scale of death within the camps and refused to condemn or act against it. He definitely administered a regime that had set clear precedent for that mistreatment. A number of those who shared his bunker with him during his last days testify that he felt that even though his reich had been a failure, at least he had rid Europe of what he called "the Jewish poison". The destruction of European Jewry was apparently some consolation to him even as he planned his own suicide.

So yeah, he is paramount amongst those who were responsible.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 02:56 am
@Dave Allen,
Dave Allen;159864 wrote:
He founded a party who campaigned on an explicitly anti-semitic agenda as spelled out in their manifesto and his own autobiography, he certainly gave the go-ahead for Kristalnacht, the ghettoisation of Jews, and the subsequent imprisonment of Jews within concentration camps.
So did USA round up japaneese immigrants put them in consentration camps, so are you saying USA also was evil?

Uh and how was it later with USA and their hunt for communists?

..and hunt for homosexuals?

Imo USA isn't a tiny bit better, that's why it sickens me with this perpetual hate and grudge, get over it, get on with your life.
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 02:56 am
@Dave Allen,
We Dutch remember tonight the War-victims at 20:00. Every organization is invited from scouts till the Royal Familiy, but not the German ambassador. It is a small group blackmailing the rest not to forgive the Germns for what they have done. The German Army surrendered 65 years ago; don't wars retire ? We now are two generations further and want to live & love together in Europe. I think it narrowminded to give in to the pressure of few Jewish Organisations (not all !) and keep the Holocaust over the head of the Germans of today.

Our national Anthem will state tonight we from German descend (the royals) for 100 of years. What hypocracy ! Both WW were a direct consequence of the expanding European countries, ruled by mainly German nobel families. The citizens of their countries suffered.
:Glasses:
0 Replies
 
Dave Allen
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 03:14 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;159866 wrote:
So did USA round up japaneese immigrants put them in consentration camps, so are you saying USA also was evil?

Uh and how was it later with USA and their hunt for communists?

..and hunt for homosexuals?

Yup - I reckon all that was various shades of wrong too.

And the British in Ireland and Tasmania.

I don't think we should have attacked Denmark in 1807 either.

And umpteen other examples of man's inhumanity to his fellow man.

Quote:
Imo USA isn't a tiny bit better, that's why it sickens me with this perpetual hate and grudge, get over it, get on with your life.

Or - tell you what - you could get on and ignore the fact that some people like to discuss history if it irritates you. Or start a thread on US wrongdoing if you like.

I'll not prevent it. Or even complain.
 

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