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The brutality by NAZI German against USSR prisoners of

 
 
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 02:21 am
[SIZE=+1]The Genocide of the USSR prisoners of war by NAZI Germany[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-2].[/SIZE]
http://www.gendercide.org/images/pics/soviet3.jpg"Testimony is eloquent and prolific on the abandonment of entire divisions under the open sky," writes Alexander Dallin of the fate of these Soviet POWs. "Epidemics and epidemic diseases decimated the camps. Beatings and abuse by the guards were commonplace. Millions spent weeks without food or shelter. Carloads of prisoners were dead when they arrived at their destination. Casualty figures varied considerably but almost nowhere amounted to less than 30 percent in the winter of 1941-42, and sometimes went as high as 95 per cent" (Bartov, The Eastern Front, p. 110).

Many of the captured Soviet men were forced to walk "hundreds of kilometers" to their designated places of detention. Colonel Erwin Lahousen, a German foreign intelligence officer, wrote in October 1941 that "The columns of [Soviet] prisoners of war moving on the roads make an idiotic impression like herds of animals. The guard details ... can only maintain some semblance of order ... by using physical force.

Because of the physical exertion of the marches, the meager diet and poor conditions in the quarters in individual camps, prisoners of war often break down, are then carried by their fellow-soldiers [see the photo at the beginning of this document] or are left lying.

The 6th Army has given orders that all prisoners of war who break down are to be executed. Unfortunately, this is done on the road, even in towns ..." (Quoted in The Hamburg Institute for Social Research, The German Army and Genocide: Crimes Against War Prisoners, Jews, and Other Civilians, 1939-1944 [New York: The New Press, 1999], pp. 100, 142.)


Conditions in the prison camps themselves were similarly atrocious. "There were no barracks or permanent housing. The camps were simply open areas fenced off with barbed wire. The prisoners had to lie in the sun, then in mud, and in the fall -- with temperatures as low as minus 30 degrees centigrade -- faced the possibility of freezing to death." (The German Army and Genocide, p. 142.) A Hungarian tank officer who visited one enclosure described it as follows: "Behind wire there were tens of thousands of [Soviet] prisoners. Many were on the point of expiring. Few could stand on their feet.

Their faces were dried up and their eyes sunk deep into their sockets. Hundreds were dying every day, and those who had any strength left dumped them in a vast pit" (Werth, Russia At War, pp. 635-36). Cannibalism was rife, and deliberate, according to Dallin: "German policy had caused, or at the very least had tolerated, the degradation of the prisoners -- and then held it up to its own people as something to be reviled, as something typical of a sub-human who could never be like Western man" (Dallin, German Rule in Russia, p. 415).

In his epic masterpiece The Gulag Archipelago, Alexander Solzhenitsyn describes the scene in one POW camp, with "the evening mist hovering above a swampy meadow encircled by barbed wire; a multitude of bonfires; and, around the bonfires, beings who had once been Russian officers but had now become beastlike creatures who gnawed the bones of dead horses, who baked patties from potato rinds, who smoked manure and were all swarming with lice. Not all these two-legged creatures had died as yet. Not all of them had lost the capacity for intelligible speech, and one could see in the crimson reflections of the bonfires how a belated understanding was dawning on those faces which were descending to the Neanderthal
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kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 02:34 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;149509 wrote:
[SIZE=+1]The genocide of USSR prisoners of war in NAZI GERMANY[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-2]Soviet prisoners-of-war jammed into
one of the open-air POW camps, summer 1941.
[/SIZE]
http://www.gendercide.org/images/pics/soviet3.jpg"Testimony is eloquent and prolific on the abandonment of entire divisions under the open sky," writes Alexander Dallin of the fate of these Soviet POWs. "Epidemics and epidemic diseases decimated the camps. Beatings and abuse by the guards were commonplace. Millions spent weeks without food or shelter. Carloads of prisoners were dead when they arrived at their destination. Casualty figures varied considerably but almost nowhere amounted to less than 30 percent in the winter of 1941-42, and sometimes went as high as 95 per cent" (Bartov, The Eastern Front, p. 110).

Many of the captured Soviet men were forced to walk "hundreds of kilometers" to their designated places of detention. Colonel Erwin Lahousen, a German foreign intelligence officer, wrote in October 1941 that "The columns of [Soviet] prisoners of war moving on the roads make an idiotic impression like herds of animals. The guard details ... can only maintain some semblance of order ... by using physical force.

Because of the physical exertion of the marches, the meager diet and poor conditions in the quarters in individual camps, prisoners of war often break down, are then carried by their fellow-soldiers [see the photo at the beginning of this document] or are left lying.

The 6th Army has given orders that all prisoners of war who break down are to be executed. Unfortunately, this is done on the road, even in towns ..." (Quoted in The Hamburg Institute for Social Research, The German Army and Genocide: Crimes Against War Prisoners, Jews, and Other Civilians, 1939-1944 [New York: The New Press, 1999], pp. 100, 142.)


Conditions in the prison camps themselves were similarly atrocious. "There were no barracks or permanent housing. The camps were simply open areas fenced off with barbed wire. The prisoners had to lie in the sun, then in mud, and in the fall -- with temperatures as low as minus 30 degreees centigrade -- faced the possibility of freezing to death." (The German Army and Genocide, p. 142.) A Hungarian tank officer who visited one enclosure described it as follows: "Behind wire there were tens of thousands of [Soviet] prisoners. Many were on the point of expiring. Few could stand on their feet.

Their faces were dried up and their eyes sunk deep into their sockets. Hundreds were dying every day, and those who had any strength left dumped them in a vast pit" (Werth, Russia At War, pp. 635-36). Cannibalism was rife, and deliberate, according to Dallin: "German policy had caused, or at the very least had tolerated, the degradation of the prisoners -- and then held it up to its own people as something to be reviled, as something typical of a sub-human who could never be like Western man" (Dallin, German Rule in Russia, p. 415).

In his epic masterpiece The Gulag Archipelago, Alexander Solzhenitsyn describes the scene in one POW camp, with "the evening mist hoverng above a swampy meadow encircled by barbed wire; a multitude of bonfires; and, around the bonfires, beings who had once been Russian officers but had now become beastlike creatures who gnawed the bones of dead horses, who baked patties from potato rinds, who smoked manure and were all swarming with lice. Not all these two-legged creatures had died as yet. Not all of them had lost the capacity for intelligible speech, and one could see in the crimson reflections of the bonfires how a belated understanding was dawning on those faces which were descending to the Neanderthal


Still another stretch of the term, "genocide". Genocide is not the only evil thing that men do. "Massacre" is another term that denotes an evil. And "mass murder" is still another. There is no shortage of terrible actions done by Man. If we call all mass murder "genocide", then pretty soon, "genocide" will simply mean, "mass murder". And that is not what it means.

"Everything is what it is, and not another thing". Joseph Butler
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 04:57 am
@Alan McDougall,
And the Russians in their turn were as kind... Funny how all that stuff sort of works out...Even those who survived the Nazis were suspected, and thrown in the Golag... It is hard to beat the Russians for cruelty, but the Nazis certainly tried...
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 05:18 am
@Fido,
My father told me, after the war ended he had to guard a train taking back white Russians to the Russian sector of Berlin. He said it was just another job, little did he realise at the time he was taking them back to certain death. Big cogs make little cogs work without always knowing whats happening.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 05:42 am
@Alan McDougall,
Certain death is the sentence we all labor under... Death is not nearly the crime of inhumanity... When we brutalize people, remove them bit by bit from their human feelings, aand make them wish their lives away, which is all they have and will ever have then murder is small by comparison... People should die wishing for more life, and not wishing for less.... The great crime of the Nazis was in their brutalizing... And do we do less today...

When people go through their lives so robbed of meaning that they must wish and wait every moment of it for something better; is that not cruelty??? Is it happiness when one is not wishing for food, or shelter, but is wishing for payday or quiting time??? Does it matter that every second in between is hateful to them, a waste, and yet; that is their lives, and the great triumph of Capital is that so many go from one end of their lives to the other wishing away the very thing they wish with: Their Lives...
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 06:00 am
@Alan McDougall,
"Genocide" is defined as the intentional attempt to destroy an entire people simply because they are the people they are. So far, thank goodness, there has been only one case of genocide in history.
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 09:13 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;149549 wrote:
"Genocide" is defined as the intentional attempt to destroy an entire people simply because they are the people they are. So far, thank goodness, there has been only one case of genocide in history.


How can I alter the title to the Brutality inflicted on Russians prisoners of war NAZI Germany
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 10:22 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;149585 wrote:
How can I alter the title to the Brutality inflicted on Russians prisoners of war NAZI Germany


I think it waters down the evil of genocide when just any mass murder is called by that name. It is not merely a verbal matter. It is a moral matter.
Dave Allen
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 11:32 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;149585 wrote:
How can I alter the title to the Brutality inflicted on Russians prisoners of war NAZI Germany

Are we talking about the Nazis, or the NAZIs?

Because while the Nazis were bad enough, the all-caps NAZIs were so much worse.

But they weren't as bad as the NAZIs.
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 11:47 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall cry me a river.

In your focus of these past crimes, you lose sight of our present.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 12:12 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;149621 wrote:
I think it waters down the evil of genocide when just any mass murder is called by that name. It is not merely a verbal matter. It is a moral matter.

The attitude of the Germans to the Russians and the Poles was Genocidal...There really is no other word for it... They were content to keep them as slaves, but if that meant slavery to death they were good with the idea...If you remove a person from their humanity, and remove them from their rights, what stands in the way of their deaths??? Nothing.... The Nazis went after Roma, and they were Arians too... They justified killing, enslaving, starving and general brutality for every one they did not have a reason to like...If they treated the Jews worse it was because they feared the Jews as an intelligent and to their minds unscrupulous and criminal people... They did not hate them as inferior, but usually feared them as mentally, and even culturally superior... Who today is safe from them who is not one of them??? Even the Jews have to look out for the Jews....Jews in Palestine from before Israel became a state have had to share the same fate as the Arabs, suffering a loss of rights and property... Was this what the Nazis so feared???
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 12:21 pm
@Fido,
I hate to mention it but he, Hitler, loved the Arabs and a certain amount loved him. He promised them liberty from the british and french empires. I wonder if he would have fulfilled their wishes, had he won? We definitely would not see Israel as a nation.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 02:13 pm
@Fido,
Fido;149649 wrote:
The attitude of the Germans to the Russians and the Poles was Genocidal...There really is no other word for it... They were content to keep them as slaves, but if that meant slavery to death they were good with the idea...If you remove a person from their humanity, and remove them from their rights, what stands in the way of their deaths??? Nothing.... The Nazis went after Roma, and they were Arians too... They justified killing, enslaving, starving and general brutality for every one they did not have a reason to like...If they treated the Jews worse it was because they feared the Jews as an intelligent and to their minds unscrupulous and criminal people... They did not hate them as inferior, but usually feared them as mentally, and even culturally superior... Who today is safe from them who is not one of them??? Even the Jews have to look out for the Jews....Jews in Palestine from before Israel became a state have had to share the same fate as the Arabs, suffering a loss of rights and property... Was this what the Nazis so feared???


Are you alleging that the Nazi's intended to wipe out the Russians and Poles? They were not insane. How could they possibly believe they would do that?
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 02:33 pm
@Alan McDougall,
They were not insane??? Is that statement some kind of joke???What would you call it, tossing human beings in their ovens like so many potatoes... There was a method to their madness, but it was still madness...
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 02:54 pm
@Fido,
Fido;149689 wrote:
They were not insane??? Is that statement some kind of joke???What would you call it, tossing human beings in their ovens like so many potatoes... There was a method to their madness, but it was still madness...


I meant that they were not irrational enough to think that they could destroy the huge Russian population. Why don't you read what I wrote? I didn't write that they were insane. I wrote that they were not insane, and it had nothing at all to do which what you just wrote.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 04:24 am
@Alan McDougall,
Their attitudes toward their captive populations in the East did not contain a bit of respect, and they did not consider them human... Whether it was stated, the object of taking living space from the people who were living on it was genocide...Taking people for slave labor and having zero respect for their rights is genocide...The Jews may have been job number one, but the words, and the actions of the German leaders pointed toward a larger destruction of humanity yet to come... Look; 40% of those killed in the Hollocaust were not Jews, and I just read a book on the subject of this other holocaust, and if my house were not torn up with cleaning and repainting, I could offer you a few official words on the issue... At times, Hitler was more rational than his generals, and at other times his generals were more rational than he... Underlying all of it, even of the whole nation was a malignancy, and I am not convinced that those people would not have practiced genocide on a vast scale if the scale they did practice it on had not so ruined their prospects of victory...
Dave Allen
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 07:22 am
@Fido,
Fido;149886 wrote:
Look; 40% of those killed in the Hollocaust were not Jews...

Sure, but as far as we can tell it was only the Jewish and Romany victims of the Nazis that were part of an attempted genocide.

So whilst a freemason, or homosexual, or communist prisoner of the Nazis was probably treated just as badly as a Jewish or Romany prisoner, they had the small comfort, at least, that their wives and children weren't necessarily suffering alongside them.

It was Jews and Gypsys murdered and abused 'as a folk' - whereas the other victims of the death camps were not victimised because of family ties relating to ethnicity, or a way of life, or culture.

That's not to say that what happened to them was not JUST AS BAD - but it wasn't an attempt at genocide. The son of a freemason might have to worry about coming under a bit of extra suspicion - but he wasn't necessarily imprisoned, abused or killed alongside his father.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 05:40 pm
@Dave Allen,
Dave Allen;149900 wrote:
Sure, but as far as we can tell it was only the Jewish and Romany victims of the Nazis that were part of an attempted genocide.

So whilst a freemason, or homosexual, or communist prisoner of the Nazis was probably treated just as badly as a Jewish or Romany prisoner, they had the small comfort, at least, that their wives and children weren't necessarily suffering alongside them.

It was Jews and Gypsys murdered and abused 'as a folk' - whereas the other victims of the death camps were not victimised because of family ties relating to ethnicity, or a way of life, or culture.

That's not to say that what happened to them was not JUST AS BAD - but it wasn't an attempt at genocide. The son of a freemason might have to worry about coming under a bit of extra suspicion - but he wasn't necessarily imprisoned, abused or killed alongside his father.

The beginning of the genocide of the Jews began with the Nuremburg laws effectively removing people from their rights... This was their view of all non Arians, and such is the beginning of all murder... Life is a right and has been recognized as a legal right since 1776, and it was a published and well known, and accepted... People do not keep people as pets... Societies destroy many slaves in the process of destroying themselves with slavery... The beginning of every crime against humanity begins in stripping others of their rights, if one has a concept of human rights, and a concept of humanity...

In fact, many accepted that Jews were not human, but sub human, and ditto for Roma and slavs... As events show, there were no legal preventions of the abuse and murder of these people as people... The French suffered a lot of petty theft, and the Dutch suffered starvation, and Denmark and Norways suffered no such level of violence... All that was missing for the slavs was the organized effort that years of hatred had made manifest among many people that characterized the holocaust of the Jews...

It is not the effort that made the genocide... Every crime begins in its justification, and in each case the the justification was found in the victim's sub humanity... Criminal Jews and Criminal Roma deserved immediate liquidation, but were they not considered worthy of rights no such liquidation would have been possible... The same thing happens in this country, where people are individually stripped of their rights so they may be executed... As an essential fact, none of those people to the East was considered as having rights protecting life, or liberty; and this was not simply an expediant of war... This was the justification of genocide...It applied to the whole group...
0 Replies
 
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 06:06 pm
@xris,
xris;149654 wrote:
I hate to mention it but he, Hitler, loved the Arabs and a certain amount loved him. He promised them liberty from the british and french empires. I wonder if he would have fulfilled their wishes, had he won? We definitely would not see Israel as a nation.


xris he would have mass murdered the Arabs as subhuman, just like he wanted to do with all the Slavic peoples, if any man deserves the adjective EVIL it was Hitler. OK he did not actually murder the Jews and others he considered subhuman, but it was his evil intention and idea to do so

Was Hitler insane or was he just intrinsically evil?
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 07:39 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Yes; Alan, and the interesting thing is that in the Hierarchy of the Nazis, all he had to do was express his will, which was malignant to humanity, and to the people of Germany too...They failed him and his will to destruction, and so he sought to deprive them of the necessities of a future existence... They lost the war; not him... In fact, he was a better general going in, but a worse one coming out, and the insane pursuit of genocide out of his mad vision destroyed the possibility of victory...Which was slim enough to begin with...
0 Replies
 
 

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