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Is there a crime that would make the death penalty justifiable?

 
 
OntheWindowStand
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2010 08:18 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;146125 wrote:
Getting back to the question, Is there a case for capital punishment in the modern world,? My answer is yes for murder and rape



I strongly disagree on the rape. The punishment would far exceed rape (the crime). We were talking earlier too about being sure about murder charges we might be able to get there but rape is something that plently of girls lie about. 25 percent of rapes are classified as unfounded. To know exactly how many are lies is very hard but many FBI officials think it could be as high as 90 percent this is from experience obviously since a survey wouldn't exactly be honest... LOL
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2010 09:44 am
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand;146153 wrote:
I strongly disagree on the rape. The punishment would far exceed rape (the crime). We were talking earlier too about being sure about murder charges we might be able to get there but rape is something that plently of girls lie about. 25 percent of rapes are classified as unfounded. To know exactly how many are lies is very hard but many FBI officials think it could be as high as 90 percent this is from experience obviously since a survey wouldn't exactly be honest... LOL


I'm really glad you brought this up. Two additions to your sentiment here if I might:

1. The idea that not all accused crimes did actually occur as an indictment (or accuser) says they did.[INDENT]No matter how intense and thorough our investigations are, because they rely on often imperfect evidence in an imperfect system administered by imperfect creatures, there will be times where innocent people are convicted. If this follows, at all, then any advocate for death penalties would necessarily have to admit that they're OK occasionally executing someone who didn't do a thing, else they'd almost have to change their stance in light of this realization.
[/INDENT][INDENT]There are some actions taken that are so permanent, so complete and irreversible that one must take the utmost care to not ever do them unless 1,000% sure. Given the variables involved, can we ever be?
[/INDENT]2. On the example of Rape, Specifically: There are some inflictions we can place upon others that are, in many ways, worse than almost anything else. This is based on the duration and level of suffering inflicted.[INDENT]Rape, I believe, has the direct potential (even likelihood) of irreversibly damaging someone for life. And in so doing, prolongs suffering - on different levels - to be 're-committed'; the effects of that injury, again and again. Perhaps a better of this kind of damage might be traumas and misdeeds inflicted on children.

In both cases, there's the very real potential for suffering that is prolonged and lives that are inextricably-altered for the worse for every remaining hour, day, month or year that victim survives.
[/INDENT]Does this justify the death penalty? To me, on an emotional level: Hell yea. On an intellectual level, probably not (reason: See the quandary described in point 1).

Thanks
OntheWindowStand
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2010 10:00 am
@Khethil,
Khethil;146175 wrote:
I'm really glad you brought this up. Two additions to your sentiment here if I might:

1. The idea that not all accused crimes did actually occur as an indictment (or accuser) says they did.
[INDENT]No matter how intense and thorough our investigations are, because they rely on often imperfect evidence in an imperfect system administered by imperfect creatures, there will be times where innocent people are convicted. If this follows, at all, then any advocate for death penalties would necessarily have to admit that they're OK occasionally executing someone who didn't do a thing, else they'd almost have to change their stance in light of this realization.
[/INDENT][INDENT]There are some actions taken that are so permanent, so complete and irreversible that one must take the utmost care to not ever do them unless 1,000% sure. Given the variables involved, can we ever be?
[/INDENT]2. On the example of Rape, Specifically: There are some inflictions we can place upon others that are, in many ways, worse than almost anything else. This is based on the duration and level of suffering inflicted.
[INDENT]Rape, I believe, has the direct potential (even likelihood) of irreversibly damaging someone for life. And in so doing, prolongs suffering - on different levels - to be 're-committed'; the effects of that injury, again and again. Perhaps a better of this kind of damage might be traumas and misdeeds inflicted on children.

In both cases, there's the very real potential for suffering that is prolonged and lives that are inextricably-altered for the worse for every remaining hour, day, month or year that victim survives.
[/INDENT]Does this justify the death penalty? To me, on an emotional level: Hell yea. On an intellectual level, probably not (reason: See the quandary described in point 1).

Thanks



The whole point wasn't that the system is imperfect. The point is that the probabilty of a false murder conviction is FAR less than a false rape charge. MOST rape convictions aren't even real. As far as an emotional level I could say that stealing is worthy of the death penalty if the majority of people stolen from want death. I could care less about emotions, the point is that death far exceeds the crime rape. Often there is no physical damage other than the penetration and as far as emotional problems most people have em doesn't mean death is the right punishment.
Pyrrho
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2010 12:04 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;146125 wrote:
Getting back to the question, Is there a case for capital punishment in the modern world,? My answer is yes for murder and rape


I won't argue with you about whether or not the guilty deserve execution. My question is, though, what are you going to do about mistakes? In the real world, mistakes are made and sometimes innocent people are convicted. If you have killed them, then you have killed an innocent person, so wouldn't you then deserve to be executed for that? You cannot bring them back once they are killed. But if you have put them in prison instead, although you cannot give them back the wasted time there, you can give them the rest of their lives by setting them free.

There simply is no escaping the fact that, in the real world, mistakes are made, so there will always be errors in who is punished. Sometimes, the mistakes are discovered later on, and can be somewhat corrected, if the people are still alive.
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2010 12:06 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand;146188 wrote:
The whole point wasn't that the system is imperfect. The point is that the probabilty of a false murder conviction is FAR less than a false rape charge. MOST rape convictions aren't even real. As far as an emotional level I could say that stealing is worthy of the death penalty if the majority of people stolen from want death. I could care less about emotions, the point is that death far exceeds the crime rape. Often there is no physical damage other than the penetration and as far as emotional problems most people have em doesn't mean death is the right punishment.
Well I would still kill you if you raped my daughter and it would not be a pleasant death. I would still expect the justice system to not execute you for rape or murder.

Vengeance is mine and justice is blind.
0 Replies
 
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2010 12:15 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand,

I think I can share most of your sentiments. This one; however...

OntheWindowStand;146188 wrote:
...MOST rape convictions aren't even real...


Is morally dangerous. Just how might you know this? Who bestowed on you this knowledge that eludes many courts and many more citizens? I don't deny that some are false - I've seen that myself - but its an ethically dangerous assumption to make, and quite likely false. Just a gentle caution there, for what it's worth.

Thanks
Rwa001
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2010 02:14 pm
@Khethil,
Quote:
...MOST rape convictions aren't even real...


This is definitely a dangerous road to go down, especially when one considers that an estimated 1/3rd of all rapes in the U.S. go unreported.

But I agree with the general sentiment in this thread that there is too great a likelihood for mistakes. I'd further suggest that murder doesn't solve the problem, at best it halts recidivism, at worst it encourages a culture of violent retribution.
0 Replies
 
 

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