0
   

Is there a crime that would make the death penalty justifiable?

 
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jan, 2010 06:31 pm
@Alan McDougall,
More evidence of the social form... Is it accepted...I don't know; is their real consensus???Think of such societies that were ruled by dynasts of great men in great houses...If they wanted some one dead they were dead one way or the other and the people did not say boo...Such societies are so numerous because they did not endure...They accepted the deaths of others because they could not protect themselves, but that is not the same as acceptance...There is a sizable minority of people against capital punishment, who are right, because among other things it brutalizes a process that should be civilized... We can lock people... We can afford to lock people up that the past could not, and it is not justice, but no one has blood on their hands... So acceptance would be fine if not forced, or pro forma
Hi My Name Is
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 04:20 am
@Fido,
Fido;117097 wrote:
More evidence of the social form... Is it accepted...I don't know; is their real consensus???Think of such societies that were ruled by dynasts of great men in great houses...If they wanted some one dead they were dead one way or the other and the people did not say boo...Such societies are so numerous because they did not endure...They accepted the deaths of others because they could not protect themselves, but that is not the same as acceptance...There is a sizable minority of people against capital punishment, who are right, because among other things it brutalizes a process that should be civilized... We can lock people... We can afford to lock people up that the past could not, and it is not justice, but no one has blood on their hands... So acceptance would be fine if not forced, or pro forma

I agree immensely with you. To the best of my knowledge, the most long lasting dynasty was Ancient Egypt. Sadly, the problem with dynasties are that the people had to do what they were told 100% of the time. Here in USA, we have the freedom of speech and all that. So we are allowed to make questionable judgments about the government without having it called treason. And we have to give the judges and government more credit; it is a very hard and objectional process of sentencing someone.
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 04:46 am
@Fido,
Fido;117097 wrote:
More evidence of the social form... Is it accepted...I don't know; is their real consensus???Think of such societies that were ruled by dynasts of great men in great houses...If they wanted some one dead they were dead one way or the other and the people did not say boo...Such societies are so numerous because they did not endure...They accepted the deaths of others because they could not protect themselves, but that is not the same as acceptance...There is a sizable minority of people against capital punishment, who are right, because among other things it brutalizes a process that should be civilized... We can lock people... We can afford to lock people up that the past could not, and it is not justice, but no one has blood on their hands... So acceptance would be fine if not forced, or pro forma


Would you want to lock up the depraved brute that raped your baby daughter of 11 months almost tearing her little body in two in the process???? Must society pay to keep this monster in human form alive, ?

Yes ?....... No?..........
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 05:02 am
@Fido,
Fido;117097 wrote:
More evidence of the social form... Is it accepted...I don't know; is their real consensus???Think of such societies that were ruled by dynasts of great men in great houses...If they wanted some one dead they were dead one way or the other and the people did not say boo...Such societies are so numerous because they did not endure...They accepted the deaths of others because they could not protect themselves, but that is not the same as acceptance...There is a sizable minority of people against capital punishment, who are right, because among other things it brutalizes a process that should be civilized... We can lock people... We can afford to lock people up that the past could not, and it is not justice, but no one has blood on their hands... So acceptance would be fine if not forced, or pro forma
So if the cost of keeping a prisoner is too expensive you with your moral logic would dispose of him? For you its not the crime but the expense, how strange.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 05:54 pm
@Hi My Name Is,
Hi! My Name Is:;117622 wrote:
I agree immensely with you. To the best of my knowledge, the most long lasting dynasty was Ancient Egypt. Sadly, the problem with dynasties are that the people had to do what they were told 100% of the time. Here in USA, we have the freedom of speech and all that. So we are allowed to make questionable judgments about the government without having it called treason. And we have to give the judges and government more credit; it is a very hard and objectional process of sentencing someone.

If you think it is hard for the judge, try it from the other side...I give the government taxes, floating the credit is their problem..

---------- Post added 01-06-2010 at 06:57 PM ----------

xris;117629 wrote:
So if the cost of keeping a prisoner is too expensive you with your moral logic would dispose of him? For you its not the crime but the expense, how strange.

Hold on thar pardnar...I would not follow in the foot steps of any failed society as we are currently doing...Right now I am trying to get out of the flow so I can watch them lemming go into the dark jaws of destiny
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 05:13 am
@Fido,
I have never been in favour of the death penalty because I dont trust mans judgement. I would though be prepared to kill through revenge, like Alan certain crimes against children overwhelm my normal feelings of crime and punishment.

What interests me is our reasoning towards the subject. Do we execute them because we feel it is the appropriate punishment? If so why are so many murderers on suicide watch. In reality is sixty years in solitary more or less severe than swinging for a couple of seconds. Our sense of ethical treatment of the convicted, is it harsher by imprisonment or lenient because of our moral reasoning. It comes back to the fact we can never be totally certain of every conviction. So let them choose their fate, hang or imprisonment.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 08:36 am
@Alan McDougall,
Whose judgement do you trust???

... I would like to judge myself, but I would hardly call that fair... The only thing that would save me from a noose is extenuating circumstances...I have always been an intelligent idiot...Either I was dropped on my head, or I was born this way...
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 09:09 am
@Fido,
Fido;118113 wrote:
Whose judgement do you trust???

... I would like to judge myself, but I would hardly call that fair... The only thing that would save me from a noose is extenuating circumstances...I have always been an intelligent idiot...Either I was dropped on my head, or I was born this way...
I dont trust mans, did I not say that? How many times have convicted criminals been freed on new evidence?
Pyrrho
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 09:09 am
@Quinn phil,
Quinn;116424 wrote:
I was a vegetarian a while ago. I was a vegetarian that hoped my efforts would stop the killing of animals. Sadly, it doesn't. Not eating the chickens won't stop the chickens from dying. There will always be consumers, that's just the way it works.
...


The number of chickens killed is affected by the number of chickens eaten. With one person, the effect, of course, is minimal, but with the number of vegetarians in the world, the effect is considerable. If they all started eating meat, the meat producers would ramp up production (i.e., they would breed more animals and kill more animals).
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 10:28 am
@xris,
xris;118125 wrote:
I dont trust mans, did I not say that? How many times have convicted criminals been freed on new evidence?

One can never trust ones self fully, nor the judgement of others, and yet there is no third alternative...
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 10:39 am
@Fido,
Fido;118158 wrote:
One can never trust ones self fully, nor the judgement of others, and yet there is no third alternative...
There is no other alternative, thats why at the conclusion capital punishment is wrong because the finality of it gives no allowance for error. I'm still like Alan though, willing to cut a child murderers bits off and hang him slowly. But then Im not the law.
Pyrrho
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 10:42 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;116040 wrote:
I have mused long and hard about the effectiveness of the death penalty and if there were crimes that would really justify it as revenge.

1) What about the "rape of babies" that have happened frequently here in South Africa where these depraved monsters think they can cure themselves of aids by doing this unspeakable act?. There is no capital punishment in South Africa so these beasts are usually out in the community again after a spell of ten years or so in prison, where they have enjoyed cooked meals and television and many other comforts of home

What does the forum think?



A major problem with the death penalty is the fact that people are wrongly convicted. And, these mistakes are made even though there are safeguards in place (in the U.S.) to try to prevent such things from happening (which obviously means the safeguards are far from perfect). If the convicted are locked in prison, they can later be released if the mistake is discovered (which sometimes happens), but if they are dead, then it is too late to try to rectify the problem. This, of course, applies to cases no matter what crime we are talking about, so it has nothing to do with whether or not the actually guilty person deserves to be executed.

There are other practical questions as well, such as how much it costs, how likely it is that a dangerous criminal will escape from prison, etc.

As an aside, your description of prisoners enjoying "comforts of home" is, at best, misleading. If you personally believe that life in prison is good, why don't you get yourself incarcerated?
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 10:56 am
@xris,
xris;118166 wrote:
There is no other alternative, thats why at the conclusion capital punishment is wrong because the finality of it gives no allowance for error. I'm still like Alan though, willing to cut a child murderers bits off and hang him slowly. But then Im not the law.

Law does not work... VEngeance should be allowed, but better is to force the community of the one found guilty to execute him...That way peace is assured, and no venegeance is required...Look at the Orestia...He killed his Mother because no one else could without drawing vengeance upon themselves and their families...
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Feb, 2010 11:43 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;116040 wrote:
I have mused long and hard about the effectiveness of the death penalty and if there were crimes that would really justify it as revenge.

1) What about the "rape of babies" that have happened frequently here in South Africa where these depraved monsters think they can cure themselves of aids by doing this unspeakable act?. There is no capital punishment in South Africa so these beasts are usually out in the community again after a spell of ten years or so in prison, where they have enjoyed cooked meals and television and many other comforts of home

What does the forum think?
1) People in Africa does such acts out of ignorence, they don't have such evolved moral standards, and it would be utterly wrong to judge and punish them by our standards, when they are glaring ignorent of ours.

Sorry, but in no way can I agree with this kind of anology.

2) too many innocent people has been put to death in the 90'ies in USA, the failure rate is too great, thereby imo it's too risky with death penalty.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 08:59 pm
@HexHammer,
interesting points of view

but who takes the side of the victims ?

this is the most disturbing aspect of this thread

as always , it is the victims of the crime that are left in the shadows of an unacceptable and dispicable act
0 Replies
 
Insty
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 11:21 pm
@Alan McDougall,
The concern about executing an innocent person should be taken very seriously, but it's not an argument against the death penalty in principle, and it doesn't apply to all cases. If the concern is that innocent people will be put to death, the death penalty can be reserved for cases in which a person's guilt is incontrovertible (e.g., where the crime has been captured on film or in photos, where a person commits the crime in public and is caught red-handed, etc.).
north
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 11:56 pm
@Insty,
Insty;139475 wrote:
The concern about executing an innocent person should be taken very seriously,


ohhh.. absolutely

Quote:
but it's not an argument against the death penalty in principle, and it doesn't apply to all cases. If the concern is that innocent people will be put to death, the death penalty can be reserved for cases in which a person's guilt is incontrovertible (e.g., where the crime has been captured on film or in photos, where a person commits the crime in public and is caught red-handed, etc.).


the evidence regardless whether on film or not , scientific evidence , genetic , should be hands down , assuming no corruption
0 Replies
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 11:58 pm
@Insty,
Insty;139475 wrote:
The concern about executing an innocent person should be taken very seriously, but it's not an argument against the death penalty in principle, and it doesn't apply to all cases. If the concern is that innocent people will be put to death, the death penalty can be reserved for cases in which a person's guilt is incontrovertible (e.g., where the crime has been captured on film or in photos, where a person commits the crime in public and is caught red-handed, etc.).


:sarcastic: I just do not see how a sentence of 150 years differs from a direct death-penalty.
In certain cases I am in favour of the Death-penanlty; there should be appeal possible by an Supra-national court to avoid biased punishment.
I case of terrorisme it"s not retailliantion on family & neighbours like Isreal does. And the Palistinians shot at random; also hitting civilian targets.

I am still in favour of the UN. Send 30.000 soldiers to the west-bank, make Yerusalem a Peace Centre under UN rule. Make Temple-berg symbol of tollerance ofmicro religions. There are all-ready more than one religion sharing the Old Xristian Churches.


:detective:
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2010 12:31 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;139480 wrote:
:sarcastic: I just do not see how a sentence of 150 years differs from a direct death-penalty.
In certain cases I am in favour of the Death-penanlty; there should be appeal possible by an Supra-national court to avoid biased punishment.
I case of terrorisme it"s not retailliantion on family & neighbours like Isreal does. And the Palistinians shot at random; also hitting civilian targets.

I am still in favour of the UN. Send 30.000 soldiers to the west-bank, make Yerusalem a Peace Centre under UN rule. Make Temple-berg symbol of tollerance ofmicro religions. There are all-ready more than one religion sharing the Old Xristian Churches.


:detective:


Pepin dear person you do not need to use green type we all know by now who you are.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2010 12:35 am
@Alan McDougall,
anyway the first post , # 1 is an absolute
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
morals and ethics, how are they different? - Question by existential potential
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
 
Copyright © 2020 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 08/05/2020 at 10:58:20