Do you think the world has become corrupt because we have rejected God?

couldn't a man and wife be considered an organization? A family is a type of organization.

I just think you're trying to paint the picture that organization is bad in and of itself. And this is not the case. I might even suggest that the human race would have died out long ago if they had taken this stance. We certainly would not be as advanced.

If social change is what you desire, then act, and do not organize...Forms resist change... Look at the Russian or French revolutions...It was those most organized who were able to take power with revoltuion, but as soon as the revolutions were in the least secure, people started wrangling over control, and eliminating rivals...

In your example of marriage, the state is the goal, not change... Raising children takes stability, and even if no more than common oaths hold the marriage together, as little as that is, it is often enough... The form is the purpose... For what would I organize revolution, for example???... Tear the thing down before building up something... Look at the communist party...They were organized, and strict...They would usually kick out as many every year as they took in...But they would not even have existed without the support of the FBI who used them to help keep track of the disillusioned...If you organize you will fight politics... If you organize for change you will be diverted, distracted, and subverted... The government is ready for organization...They are not ready for anarchy...

Do you think the world of today is becoming increasingly corrupt due to humanity rejecting God and embracing atheism? While it is true that there has always been wars, famine. plague it seems to me that we are coming increasingly closer to some sort of an Apocalypse unless we change our ways and become truly altruistic to our fellow man.??

Without a god figure man is left to his own devises and becomes accountable only to himself "Let us eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die"

I'd see people go after good on purpose rather than thinking of it as a way station on the way to heaven...No one feels comfortable questioning the faith of their fathers...If they feel their faith is in good they can be put to a bad use, and it is that situation of wishing good and being used for evil that all should avoid, and have a duty to avoid...

I have been to church, and I have met decent people there who had the sense to take the pope with a tea spoon... Others were real jerks and thought the America flag flies in heaven, and that government was alway right when it wasn't democrat... I must say, the politics of the place, which exhausts every good purpose is senseless...Your church is probably better...It is pointless to organize to do good..Just do good...Then you are done...

---------- Post added 01-06-2010 at 06:03 PM ----------


A handful drive, and the majority push...

The only people to benefit from organization are the bad ones...A dark purpose is a single purpose, really, while good as an object is all over...The Nazis found it incredibly easy to organize around nationalism and anti semitism...They did not avoid violence, but promised violence...To get people to sublimate their personal frustration in organization is easy... On the other hand, everyone has their idea of good, and the need for good is all over... But, organize three people and two will be wasting their efforts on the vote of the third...Politics, the personality of any organization, distracts from the true purpose, if the purpose is true...

If social change is what you desire, then act, and do not organize...Forms resist change... Look at the Russian or French revolutions...It was those most organized who were able to take power with revoltuion, but as soon as the revolutions were in the least secure, people started wrangling over control, and eliminating rivals...

In your example of marriage, the state is the goal, not change... Raising children takes stability, and even if no more than common oaths hold the marriage together, as little as that is, it is often enough... The form is the purpose... For what would I organize revolution, for example???... Tear the thing down before building up something... Look at the communist party...They were organized, and strict...They would usually kick out as many every year as they took in...But they would not even have existed without the support of the FBI who used them to help keep track of the disillusioned...If you organize you will fight politics... If you organize for change you will be diverted, distracted, and subverted... The government is ready for organization...They are not ready for anarchy...

why is stability a bad thing? Also, how many people, having this same idea, would it take to become......an organization? An organization need not be a group of people who meet, just a group of people with the same idea. They need not even interact necessarily, but from a big picture standpoint they would still be acting as a unit. See the problem?

Organization is not the problem, IMO, people are the problem. Until each person individually decides to change, it won't happen

Whether you want good, or want change as good, stability, or status quo does not get it... In a marriage you have something you wish to preserve, Love, so you build a form around the relationship.

You are correct, that people have to admit they need change more than they fear change...When the powerful people in society deliberately divide the people so they can be ruled, then change waits upon an explosive force...Left or right are both as frustrated, both in need, both in anger, and both in desparation...WE do need this hatred, and we do not need the civil war such hatred makes likely... We all have to disenthrall ourselves... If we quit believing, it will fall...

So an organization is inherently corrupt because of its hierarchy? Rejection of church is a rejection of organization so by rejecting God you are rejecting this corruption? Is anarchy not a form? Are you still not bound by it? I mean to be an anarchist you still have to follow the rules/description that makes you an anarchist or you aren't one. Is this not corruptible? Wouldn't adhering to an ideal make you incorruptible, even if the ideal is religious in base?

All you need is love.....


I could help myself

---------- Post added 01-06-2010 at 09:54 PM ----------

I think what you fail to see though is what should those organizations be changing into? I believe a family....which by your own admission is about stability

I think we're already corrupted beacuse of God, beacuse if you have not realized, that there has been and are wars that go on based of religious beliefs not being the same. So how would rejecting God be any different based on what has happened beacuse of said,''GOD'' anyway? Clearly, Belief in god or not does not create what ''corruptes'' people. It's maybe human nature,or the result of societies. Not a all ''supreme being'' that many do not believe in. That's just sounds like a way to put blame onto something that can't truly be proved. Cop out as some would call it.

I do reject organized religion because they are all form and no relationship...

You don't need a support group to resist, do you???

I don't reject God, and I do reject organized religion because they are all form and no relationship...

I just wish you would say you reject how people have used organized religion

I just wish I could grasp what he means. I'm just smart enough for it to piss me off that I don't understand.

lol. It's all good. Well I can only tell you what I inferred and that is that he doesn't reject the notion that God may be real but he does reject religions due to their corruption. I commented as I did because I would prefer that he not implicate the religions themselves but rather the people "supposing" to practice them.

I'm going to take a crack at this but I think that he rejects the religion itself on principle cause its a "form". Without the "form" people would not commit the act.

To blame the form takes the responsibility from the individual when to reject the form places the responsibility for the corruption on the individual?

I don't reject God, and I do reject organized religion because they are all form and no relationship...

I think we're already corrupted beacuse of God, beacuse if you have not realized, that there has been and are wars that go on based of religious beliefs not being the same. So how would rejecting God be any different based on what has happened beacuse of said,''GOD'' anyway? Clearly, Belief in god or not does not create what ''corruptes'' people. It's maybe human nature,or the result of societies. Not a all ''supreme being'' that many do not believe in. That's just sounds like a way to put blame onto something that can't truly be proved. Cop out as some would call it.

I just wish you would say you reject how people have used organized religion

Hard to comprehend, try using a spell checker!

*blushes* I should... thank you. I'm not the best speller. :brickwall: