Do you think the world has become corrupt because we have rejected God?

@Fido,

Fido;117220 wrote:

There is nothing to be taught, no certain knowledge, and just a mismash of prejudice...

what do you mean by 'certain' knowledge?

@Amperage,

Amperage;117324 wrote:

what do you mean by 'certain' knowledge?

Touch your finger tips together... Can you say you are certain that you feel??? Make the leap to humanity, and ask if it is much less certain that they feel...If both you and humanity feel, and so, suffer, what part of God, the knowledge of God, or of infinites generally does one need to care for others, and treat their pain with kindness... Life is our one certain knowledge, and while we have it, all things have meaning through our lives, even infinites that cannot be conceived of except as meanings, like God...This place could be better if we would quit chasing spirits and start chasing what is possible given our limited grasp of reality...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido;117392 wrote:

Touch your finger tips together... Can you say you are certain that you feel??? Make the leap to humanity, and ask if it is much less certain that they feel...If both you and humanity feel, and so, suffer, what part of God, the knowledge of God, or of infinites generally does one need to care for others, and treat their pain with kindness... Life is our one certain knowledge, and while we have it, all things have meaning through our lives, even infinites that cannot be conceived of except as meanings, like God...This place could be better if we would quit chasing spirits and start chasing what is possible given our limited grasp of reality...

I think that's very well said but couldn't that caring be considered....Godly?

1 Reply

@Amperage,

Amperage;117399 wrote:

I think that's very well said but couldn't that caring be considered....Godly?

Didn't Jesus say to those he preached to that they were gods??? What other animal on the planet has such power and freedom, and trust me on this, if you do as your God would have you do, You are God to some heathen believing in his fetish, as well as that o ne who holds his God as unapproachable...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido;117406 wrote:

Didn't Jesus say to those he preached to that they were gods??? What other animal on the planet has such power and freedom, and trust me on this, if you do as your God would have you do, You are God to some heathen believing in his fetish, as well as that o ne who holds his God as unapproachable...

just to clarify by Godly I meant of God or from God, but I reckon that I agree with that(what I've quoted) too(though I'm not sure I could agree with the "ARE" part).

0 Replies

@Alan McDougall,

Personally I do not think the world is more corrupt. Nor do I think the world has rejected belief in "god".
The notion of human rights, of human dignity, of liberty of freedom, of representative government, the rejection of slavery, the advance of reason and science these are all modern acheivments. The world is not perfect, nor will it ever be, but I do not see the reason for profound pessimism. We have the technology to live in harmony with nature in sustainable populations, we just lack the instutions and the will. They will come.
Belief in purpose meaning and significance persist. The belief in some higher power or spirit persists in the majority of the population. Our notions of the nature of the divine and how the divine acts in the world are changing but nihilism and materialism (mechanistic determiism) are both minority viewpoints. So I think both of your premises are wrong.

0 Replies

@Amperage,

Amperage;117177 wrote:

Interesting. I agree with what you've said(though I would add that that IMO a deeper understanding of religion has nothing to do with intimidation) but at the same time the question my mind wants to ask is that shouldn't the ultimate goal for humanity be that we don't need the intimidation and that we do the right thing because it's the right thing to do?

Amperage we would like to think so, but each of our personal histories reveal acts of selflessness, and acts totally self serving that are to our advantage but at a cost to others. Talk about an enigma, we are the original.
Consider the sneak thief, as opposed to the blatant thief. If we know someone who is a thief and we know that given the opportunity they will steal from us we consider that individual as morally corrupt. Now consider the friend or acquaintance that we believe would not steal from us but we find that given the correct circumstance they would steal from us if they thought the blame could never fall on them. Who is the more morally corrupt? The blatant one or the sneak thief, I personally see the sneak thief as additionally vile as the theft is supplemented with the betrayal of trust.
I give this example to paint the fluidity of human morals, what we see ain't all we get and circumstance is sometimes the motivator for immoral behaviour from one we considered as an open book. I open my mind to all eventualities if human free will is involved.

---------- Post added 01-06-2010 at 02:48 PM ----------

Alan McDougall;117189 wrote:

Murder is rampant throughout S.A and the killings are too often for the most ridiculously small rewards, such as a cell phone or 10 rand etc, etc. Unemployment and resulting poverty crime and grime are also major problems. Education must become a national priority. Overcrowding Of prisons are turning petty criminals into evil monsters. The easy availability and access to cheap street drugs and the easy access of unlawful guns to criminals and abnormal love of money, by them gives them power they should not have.

Alan, a well observerved and extrapolated overview of the plague of indifference and negative social engineering that must suit some in S.A., but for the life of me I could not say who.
Tis about the haves and have not's, but that has been at the crux of social disobedience from day one I would surmise. Jesus preached unadulterated socialism. He even threatened that it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. Does this suggest that all that are rich have no humanity, probably not?
It does however suggest to me that to attain the wealth you have to s*** on a plethora to attain that wealth and there is the dilemma. The richer you are the more brothers and sisters you would have to disadvantage to attain the wealth. But what of the poor sod who becomes wealthy after suffering poverty, do they make a better humanitarian than the ones born to wealth?.........

I watched a doco years ago set in Chicago's poorest black neighborhoods. Young unemployed and disenfranchised black youths were asked why they robbed, and with violence if necessary. They all said that the whites were holding them down and dis advantaging them because they were black. Then the interviewer informed them that most of the crimes in their neighbourhood was perpetrated on other poor blacks in their neighbourhood. The answer from one was astounding and practice at the same time. He simply said that when another poor black got their social welfare payment they were no longer as disadvantaged as him and fair game while they had the payment and the perpetrator did not. They cried social justice but acted selfishly regardless of the social and economic status of the victim.

0 Replies

@Alan McDougall,

Consider the possibility that a society that demeans people forces them into a new form of identity if it does not destroy them...Their group, their family, their hood; all is their only alternative to a society that would as soon bag them and tag them... It is all nice to talk of nation and partiotism, but you do not inspire people with those sentiments one moment and cash in the meaning of them in the next moment...As long as those folks are not rolling over and playing dead, there is hope for them...Many people just give up, and die...We have our musslemen, just as the death camps did; and we have some who will get through any hell, fat and fine...

0 Replies

@Alan McDougall,

The South African crime wave is not about the rich and poor crime as it effects and is being committed more on the hopeless and frail that on the rich. All segments of SA are suffering under one of the worst crime waves in all of human history. Those who do not have to live in SA read mostly government propaganda which pictures SA as some sort of Utopia, which it is not.

The reason I started the thread was to find some reason for this appalling state of affairs. During Apartheid there was must less civilian crime, I am not defending apartheid just stating a truth. The so called now free segment of the SA society seem to think it is OK to rape and murder and these monsters definitely have no belief in a righteous God, to whom one day they will have to account

0 Replies

@Alan McDougall,

Eveybody cries about crime, and the crime most cried over is against the rich, but the crimes of the rich go unnoticed...Do you think it may be possible that the rich and the poor are of a set piece???And perhaps the bottom is only as crminal as the top???Or that lives that can be counted by the dollar can be counted by the cents???

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido;117678 wrote:

Everybody cries about crime, and the crime most cried over is against the rich, but the crimes of the rich go unnoticed...Do you think it may be possible that the rich and the poor are of a set piece???And perhaps the bottom is only as crminal as the top???Or that lives that can be counted by the dollar can be counted by the cents???

You continue to generalize stating nearly every segment of society is corrupt, remember there are decent moral people who would never hurt another person, much more people believe in God than those that do not so I think the truth is with the majority

2 Replies

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall;117713 wrote:

You continue to generalize stating nearly every segment of society is corrupt, remember there are decent moral people who would never hurt another person, much more people believe in God than those that do not so I think the truth is with the majority

I would say, that if the truth is a majority, it is best to stand on that side of the line... I agree that most people are moral so much as they think about it... A lot of SS killers were family men, so they must have been moral too... And I would define it in that fashion, that moral is how you treat those you have some reason to care about.. So it is, that if the Jews kill a hundred Muslims for every Jew killed, it is moral, and I would argue it is moral any day of the week... But the real object of moral consideration is to build a sense of family as large as humanity...

The corruption in a society on the skids is not necessarily shared equally by all... It is that nagging sort of understanding that you are knowing the benefit of another's poverty, or are making a fraction of a cent profit on every bullet spent...The case is never so simple as the book 1984 makes it seem, of wishing the worst thing that could happen to you onto another... We can simply thank God that we are not worse off, like some we know...That is all it takes to demoralize a whole people a drip at a time...

You know, if everything went bad in a hurry we might have enough morality to fight for what is right four ourselves and for others, but to be stewed, bit by bit, and as thing grow worse, to wish your pain onto another, or worse to scape goat others as though guilty... I think there is plenty enough corruption..A lot of people stick their head in a Bible like an Ostrach sticks his head in the sand... They don't want to know because they don't want to help...

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall;117713 wrote:

You continue to generalize stating nearly every segment of society is corrupt, remember there are decent moral people who would never hurt another person, much more people believe in God than those that do not so I think the truth is with the majority

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido;117866 wrote:

..A lot of people stick their head in a Bible like an Ostrach sticks his head in the sand... They don't want to know because they don't want to help...

Or perhaps Fido they have little faith in the ongoing morality of man, such as you example in your thoughts, so they grasp at ethereal straws. The solace that we can take from these folks is that they attempt to live by the conviction of their faith and hopefully transgress against others less than they would otherwise.

1 Reply

@Zetherin,

Zetherin;117867 wrote:

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you agree with the logic of that link then democracy is a fallacy as well because it is driven by the majority

1 Reply

@Psycobabble,

Psycobabble;117914 wrote:

Or perhaps Fido they have little faith in the ongoing morality of man, such as you example in your thoughts, so they grasp at ethereal straws. The solace that we can take from these folks is that they attempt to live by the conviction of their faith and hopefully transgress against others less than they would otherwise.

I'd see people go after good on purpose rather than thinking of it as a way station on the way to heaven...No one feels comfortable questioning the faith of their fathers...If they feel their faith is in good they can be put to a bad use, and it is that situation of wishing good and being used for evil that all should avoid, and have a duty to avoid...

I have been to church, and I have met decent people there who had the sense to take the pope with a tea spoon... Others were real jerks and thought the America flag flies in heaven, and that government was alway right when it wasn't democrat... I must say, the politics of the place, which exhausts every good purpose is senseless...Your church is probably better...It is pointless to organize to do good..Just do good...Then you are done...

---------- Post added 01-06-2010 at 06:03 PM ----------

Alan McDougall;117921 wrote:

If you agree with the logic of that link then democracy is a fallacy as well because it is driven by the majority

A handful drive, and the majority push...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido;117924 wrote:

It is pointless to organize to do good..Just do good...Then you are done....

To say it is pointless to organize to do good is to say that it is pointless to organize, surely you don't think that organization is pointless do you?

Correct me if I'm wrong but to organize, or better yet, the reason to organize(or gather) is because of the benefits provided that cannot otherwise be achieved solo. Correct?

1 Reply

@Amperage,

Amperage;117959 wrote:

To say it is pointless to organize to do good is to say that it is pointless to organize, surely you don't think that organization is pointless do you?

Correct me if I'm wrong but to organize, or better yet, the reason to organize(or gather) is because of the benefits provided that cannot otherwise be achieved solo. Correct?

The only people to benefit from organization are the bad ones...A dark purpose is a single purpose, really, while good as an object is all over...The Nazis found it incredibly easy to organize around nationalism and anti semitism...They did not avoid violence, but promised violence...To get people to sublimate their personal frustration in organization is easy... On the other hand, everyone has their idea of good, and the need for good is all over... But, organize three people and two will be wasting their efforts on the vote of the third...Politics, the personality of any organization, distracts from the true purpose, if the purpose is true...

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall;117921 wrote:

If you agree with the logic of that link then democracy is a fallacy as well because it is driven by the majority

Huh?... How?......

0 Replies

@Fido,

Fido;117979 wrote:

The only people to benefit from organization are the bad ones...A dark purpose is a single purpose, really, while good as an object is all over...The Nazis found it incredibly easy to organize around nationalism and anti semitism...They did not avoid violence, but promised violence...To get people to sublimate their personal frustration in organization is easy... On the other hand, everyone has their idea of good, and the need for good is all over... But, organize three people and two will be wasting their efforts on the vote of the third...Politics, the personality of any organization, distracts from the true purpose, if the purpose is true...

couldn't a man and wife be considered an organization? A family is a type of organization.

I just think you're trying to paint the picture that organization is bad in and of itself. And this is not the case. I might even suggest that the human race would have died out long ago if they had taken this stance. We certainly would not be as advanced.

1 Reply

Do you think the world has become corrupt because we have rejected God?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know