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Death Experience of Mellen-Thomas Benedict

 
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 06:57 am
@KaseiJin,
KaseiJin;68233 wrote:
I think I had drawn the general line starting from 180 minutes. If a person has no heartbeat AND no blood being pumped by machine AND no air ventilation (that is no machine pumping oxygen into your body--which never happens anyway, if the blood is not being pumped . . . and we can drop the cell food...because basically, if your blood is not circulating [even if it's less blood volume], the cell food is gonna do extremely little good) , for a period of at least 180 minutes (that's at least 3 hours under those above conditions, please keep in mind) that person will most likely never be resuscitated. That is somatic death.

I recall your story (published on a different thread) and feel for you--as I know the circumstances and the tragaedy. My heart goes out to you on that.

It is true then, as you have shared with us, Alan, that you did not die. Your brain may have recieved some damage, but probably nothing so big as to notice (beyond normal brain build for Bipolar Disorder). What that then leads to, is not the conclusion that you have experienced death, but that you have never experienced death, just as not a single person living on the face of the earth at this moment has ever experienced death. It's a simple fact.

You had mentioned in your earlier post that you have seen your physical body from outside your body. I would like to ask if you would attempt an explanation of how a non-body can see; although it might also be best on that other thread.
Sorry Kj but why do you keep trying to infer that death has not occured what relevance has it got?As for Obe,s i have no real opinion on them even though my level headed mother,experienced one while choking.Thanks xris

---------- Post added at 08:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 AM ----------

We have a problem Alan its no ones fault just our perspective through experiences.I dont think i would in anyway believe in Nde,s if i had not experienced certain events.We must seem like rabid determined believers to Kj ,i cant say i blame him.I for certain must appreciate knowledge and our experiences have different values.I just wish we could impress the importance of experience to those who have not had them.Some could say we are deluded but we know differently whatever science tells us.Thanks Kj and you Alan.
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 05:34 am
@xris,
Dear Forum

Make a comparison to my NDE and Bennet if you like

I have begun to remember more and more of those strange journeys to the other side of physical life


So I wrote this essay based on my experiences for those who are interested

One early morning while all was still dark I awoke in that state between sleep and wake and the boundaries between my physical self and everything physical around me began to dissolve. Quietness like a soft warm comforting peaceful blanket descended on my sleeping body and mind.

I could hear in the background the sweet song of birds softly singing birds and somehow knew their wonderful beautiful voices were in absolute harmony and somehow were reflected the electrons darting in the mind of the Infinite One.

Outside leaves rustled in the autumn night and although still indoors on my bed, I could somehow feel the breeze against my skin and the wonderful scent of grass and flowers that permeated the earth.


I then arose above the earth to where the blue became black and looked with wonder of the glory of the infinite night. Suddenly everything vanished and I was no longer aware of where I was until a warm golden light encompassed me about and I knew I was in that eternal place outside time or space.


Indeed, I now dwelt in the everlasting infinite moment. Marvelous extraordinary insights flashed into my mind and I was able with a new godlike understanding to comprehend. All the mysteries of existence.

It was clear to me then that the universe was mostly good and that evil will never prevail against the light. Beautifully interconnected in one glorious harmony of all things seem to be. I seemed to be an intense intelligent point of light.


I could see an eternal fire within the spirit of my being and was filled by it with a sustained sense of exultation, immense joy, peace, rapture and sublime bliss

An intellectual illumination beyond any description overflowed my mind and. I knew then that all humanity was potentially immortal and possessed eternal life and the ultimate plan of the universe was for the good of all that dwelt within its brilliant unimaginable beautiful wonderful and vast golden glorious boarders.

The concept of time vanished and I seem to exist in an everlasting moment. The physical universe was indeed a most precious jewel in the mind of God.

I lived complete lives in a moment, but also in real time hard to explain I do not believe in reincarnation!

The greatest emotion there was the feeling of unconditional all encompassing eternal love by our creator and all the joyful beings in this everlasting blinding pure domain of light and life All life is of prime importance and the souls of animals were loved by the creator God.

We sang there all together in perfect harmony the creation song of Gods existence and eternal mystery.


This timeless reality was so very much more real than the three-dimensional reality we experience on earth. In this state, my mind was clear and I could feel an incredible energy and power coursing through me in this new wonderful indescribable time place.

There seem to be nothing but a sense of knowing, being and loving. A strange thing was that in this dimension one could alternate between the subjective and objective anytime at will .


Oh! How my soul DELIGHTED then and how reluctant I was to return to the bleak mundane existence of my earthly life. Reflecting back on my early life I wondered how many moments or days of subjoin on earth in my mortal body had being truly happy.

I was now experiencing a continual sustained happiness beyond description together with unimaginable joy, peace and glory.

During my sojourn in these other realms, I went amongst the stars, saw their mighty glory and glorious multi-colored planets, and observed great beings than were countless million kilometers high?, which sailed on radiant light in the dark space that makes up most of the universe.

I asked the infinite one if there was life in the universe and knew it was awash with life. Wave after wave of revelation swept through my whole being and the wonder and joy of it all was almost too much for me stand or comprehend.


It was revealed to me then that our prime purpose for existing was to ever progress upwards through many dimensions towards the light of the ultimate absolute reality (which is God) while always retaining our blessed uniqueness.


In the end we will all merge with all things, restore harmony to creative existence. We would then still be ourselves but also have access to the infinite knowledge power and presence of the creator God as we finally withdraw once again into ourselves.

Then we will become co -creators able to create by the power of imagination, perception and thought. I remember how my passed over mother had showed me that if she wanted a house of here liking she could "just think about it in detail and create it as a reality". Of course no one really needs homes to shelter us from the weather over there. Of course if we want to feel the wind upon our bodies we can produce this effect.


At first we might see people dressed or places just like one would expect them to be, but this is an initial illusion created to ease one slowly into the strange dimensions in the afterlife

Travel is also by thought both into the physical and ethereal dimensions of realities. Just think of a place or person and immediately you are there. This is both in the physical material universe and also through other realities, realms and dimensions, dark or light.

Some of the future events coming to planet earth were revealed and shown to me. Humanity would have to migrate from planet earth into the universe, as the earth's resources were finite.

No nuclear holocaust would obliterate earth and the greatest threat was the population explosion
.


In addition, "the future is not set in stone" and the decisions taken by a single person or a nation could alter the outcome of the future, for all humanity


The loss of moral absolutes was sadness to the Divine and the restoration of these was of paramount important if humankind was to escape join the rest of sentient beings in the vast universe.
All persons should not only believe but also know that all will ultimately have to account to the divine for what they have done while on their journey of life, as mere mortal beings while on planet earth.

I inquired as to whether we similar experienced pleasures exist in the spiritual realm as we do with our mortal bodies while on earth such as, good food, mortal love touch, taste, smell, sight, sex, would this all be lost when we took on ethereal or spiritual bodies.. What about our friends, family, lovers, soul mates?

What about travel, homes etc, etc, etc what about boundaries of conduct was anything forbidden if sin was abolished? As there would no longer be evil or sin in heaven, everything would be permissible and we would be able to experience ecstasy, bliss and sublime joy as we mingle and merge completely with any one we wish.


Everything there is much much more intense, sustained and beautiful complete and wonderful than anything we could remotely liken to on the earthly plane. It is indeed very very exciting! Beyond the present imagination of any mortal (With some exceptions of course)

There a total mystical union with the divine will become the norm and unions between spirits Perhaps the greatest intense pleasurable ecstasy known to humanity was sex and something like this continues in the next life, but is much more, intense and euphoric .

There one is free to please and love each other by totally giving of our souls, spirits and minds in a merging of such unimaginable love that our present minds and bodies could not comprehend. The ethereal or soul body exits at a much higher rate of vibration that it can, therefore, experience things that are impossible for the physical body

However the union with the Divine is something even more wonderful, unimaginable beautiful, sublimely, blessed, happy, glorious that no words yet formed in any earthly language could come remotely near describing this infinite love and bliss one can only receive from the "Divine Infinite"

But one does not just go on existing in never ending bliss, No!! All must learn evolve and create their own realities. There are ceaseless challenges and no boredom unless one wants to be bored and stagnate. We can graduate upward or descend downward as we still have a free will in the afterlife

A process of continual learning takes place and an instant access and pooling of all knowledge by telepathy between all the minds in existence is possible. It is also possible to communicate in this manner with the simple innocent minds of our passed over beloved pets and all creatures big and small. We would have instant access to all our beloved ones, throughout creation, no matter how far they are from us, by these exciting new abilities.

Wonderful is it not? Therefore, there is no such thing as separation, loneliness, tears, sorrow, and sickness and finally there is victory over death itself.

Are all beings no matter how depraved during physical life on dying go to this wonderful dimension life? No!!, absolutely not! We would be constantly bombarded their dark thoughts (as the means of communication was telepathy) and heaven would become a hell .


So it is logical and obvious that God cannot permit this to happen. I had a feeling (I am not sure) the worst monstrous beings (and they are not all of human origin) might have their lives extinguished forever. This is the third death from which no one ever awakes.

The book of life, which is contained as memories in the temporal lobe of our brain, are played off, like a video recording on death before us and God immediately upon death. It is much more vivid than any movie, one actually relives each moment again , feelings of regret, pain, joy, love, anger, hate love etc are more than remembered they are relived at rapid speed but strongly also in actual time, how this works I do not know!


This is called the life review by near death experiences. There is no judgment for most, just mild disapproval an admonishment for the wrongs we have done in life.

But think about the life review of a base depraved being like Hitler, his life review would have been and is his own punishment


We feel the actual and joy subjectively and objectively of actions and events in life in this life review I think it is a sort of graduation? Hopefully for me anyway!


In the life review we see the sort of live in the knock on effect of our good deeds all the way down into the vast network of life. And we also feel objectively the effects both good and bad of how our actions have effected and influenced other people.


The "life review" is played off at great speed like a movie fast forwarding at a speed to fast for the eye to follow. But unlike a movie we are part of the life review. The life review comes and goes in one blinding moment, but strangely we relive every moment of our lives so that we can learn from our mistakes. God can of course slow it down and make one relive an event over and over again. God can if he likes, compress eternity in a one brief fleeting moment OR extend a moment into an eternity

One candle dispel the darkness. Anyone reading this testimony will definitely not be going into outer darkness but will inherit the kingdom of God. The spirits of all animals will return to God from whence they had come God loves them dearly.


It was "IMPRESSED ON ME IN THE STRONGEST TERMS THAT":--------
"The abuse of children will face the full wrath of God and it would be better for this type of person to have never been born"


It is awesome to ponder that the dimensions discussed in this testimony is only the first of many that the spirit/soul has to travel before finally merging and submerging with the "Infinite Almighty". We would then have the unbelievable of direct access to the infinite mind of God (Jacobs Ladder).

I as also showed much of what is unknown about our almost unimaginably beautiful physical universe. There are beings that sail for a better word across the vast oceans that we call space time, pushed by radiant energy on gossamer wings thousands of miles across..

There are other strange humanoid life forms so advanced from us that one could not get them to recognize me as a sentient being. Others were primitive, others almost totally like or earth but with minute differences.

What we call matter is simply a wisp of smoke and I could rush through giant planets, which flashed be as rock, crystal, fire and again into the unimaginable void of the unifiers into the composite white light of SOURCE.. Our universe would at first appear as it reseeded as an infinite dark plane then become a huge black orb until it was just one black dot amongst the infinite other universe in the eternal now of existence. All interconnected fundamental particles of one colossal gigantic cosmic body



The universe is awash with life, some so different from our own that they would not recognize us as living sentient beings and to us they would be great unmoving orbs. Some move at such a different hugely faster rate than humans that they would have to wait a thousands years of their years to observe the smallest movement, such as us lifting up an arms or taking a step

There are others that live so slowly compared to humans that they would appear to us like unmoving mountains



To them we are like flashing sparks of electrons, exist and gone. Some of those beings have being observing our world for millions of years and the only real change they see is the huge continental drifts.


Indeed the creation of our glorious universe was an intelligent act of magnificent unimaginable indescribable beauty.

























Alan14:28:23
0 Replies
 
KaseiJin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 09:04 pm
@xris,
Xris, please do pull up a chair, focus your attention and energy, and carefully take all of what I will say in full consideration. Please, I humbly and politely ask you, xris, to take the time to really digest all the details, and visualize all the connections--regardless of the time needed to do so. I might be good to put some portions of this thread, and others (that I'll direct you to) in 'print mode' (thread tools at top right of center) and print them out so that you can underscore, highlight in yellow, make notes on the paper and cross-examine and compare.

I will explain the reason I keep pointing out that no one who has had a NDE has died. Before that, however, let me also state that as you go back over my earlier posts on this thread, you will absolutely find that I have never even insinuated that I think that these people, as well as you and Alan, did not have a near death experience. The experience is real. It is as real as the dreams one experiences at night.

Also, I have never insinuated that those who have had NDEs are, to quote your word choice, " rabid determined believers ," or "deluded." What I am saying is that a lack of knowledge on top of natural human tendency has lead to a misconception about what is far most likely happening in NDEs and OBEs...that's all...and am trying to explain that little by little, point by point (on different areas of the forum).

One first step, xris, would be to (if you haven't already) go over to page 5, post # 48 of the 'Consciousness is a Biological Problem' and read over post #48 carefully so as to come to as full an understanding as possible, then thoughtfully ponder over what that would mean for a brain's coming into existence.

Then, please look over post #39, on page four, and carefully consider the detail of how one expression of emotion develops. This is just one, but there are many examples of the operation of structures within the brain which build towards the whole. Please consider what that might mean.

Then, if we have experience with a thing or event, we will more likely have a memory trace of it in our brain (this is a physical property...trust me for now, I'll explain all that later, in detail), even if we cannot access it. Because memory is a distributed matter, elements of memory traces can be 're-combined' into creative abstractions. However, if certain damage to the brain in a rather certain area occurs, memory traces of most kinds cannot be made--because that portion of brain tissue is dead. Based on what is known, on what has happened in clinical cases which have been studied and verified, it is clear that dead brain tissue will not have memory traces. This is the same for emotional content memory too.

Then, as has been talked about in various places above, if a person does not have experience with a matter (thus no memory traces in their brain of it) it will be almost absolutely a sure thing that their brain will not be able to produce it. For example, if a person cannot accurately picture a kakeshi in their brain, it will be because they have no memory trace (experience with/of) that item.

Therefore, because those who have NDE or OBE experiences actually do not die, and almost none (in most cases) have any major brain damage, and yet have memory traces of the experience, the experience is an internal mode of operation of the brain. How could we actually demonstrate that a brain that has not died, has experienced a state of death? Really, we can not.

NDEs, therefore, while real experences, as of the very similar nature of a type of dream.
0 Replies
 
salima
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 11:43 pm
@Alan McDougall,
KJ-
i realize how hard you are working on these posts, and i dont want to divert your attention to another issue, but i am dying to know if you can prove or disprove the issue of whether or not there is any connection between one brain/mind and another. even a simple yes or no would suffice, i will be happy to wait a year or two (it will take me that long to go over your posts!) but my curiosity is growing, along with suspense.

in other words, i am looking for proof of the possibility or impossibility of actual telepathic communication, or connecting to the collective consciousness (if you subscribe to such a thing) such as edgar cayce may have done, and also to explain people who recount experiences of what they believe to be their past lives, since every thought and memory would be accessible in this collective consciousness, as i understand it. is that in the realm of neuroscience?
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 03:50 am
@salima,
Kj i understand your argument, you don't have to keep repeating yourself.
I understand that if memory can be lost in the brain then how can those individuals be seeing memories of past events, if their memory is stored in their brain and not in ethereal existence.I understand now that science is finding we can store memory in our genes,how does that effect your theory?We are dealing with so many unknowns,who can be so certain their knowledge out weighs another's.
What hidden secrets does the brain hold for future science.I will ask you again to confirm that consciousness does not exist in any one portion of the brain.How does my proposed theory of a transient state executed by the brain, when it believes it is dying, contravene any of your science?
Sorry KJ but you are asking me to accept a receptor for this existence, if damaged, proves the ethereal soul does not exist.If a cars breaks fail it does not mean the driver has not applied the breaks.You are not asking the right questions but making assumptions by the ones you have asked.
KaseiJin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 09:00 am
@xris,
I have not studied that much in that area, salima, but from the several cases I have come across and research tests on telepathic communication that I have read up on, the evidence shows a great deal of inconsistency. At the same time, methodological study formats don't seem to be so fixed (just like the 'benefit of unknown third party prayer) and study cases seem comparatively few, so my position is that no answer can be given, really. There may be something to information carrying particles that we have yet to really put a thumb on? It may all be a matter of cold reading mixed with pure random matching patterns? Who knows, really. I used to consider it much of a real phenomenon, but hold no opinion at the moment.

I am familiar with C.G. Jung's collective unconscious concept (which doesn't match with nature; most surely false) but am not familiar with any collective consciousness concept. However, if we use the standard definition of consciousness, I don't see how there could be any external, natural, factual truth to it. Regarding 'remembering past lives,' we'll run into problems fast, but that should be touched on later, I would suggest, and not here on this thread. Please help me keep it in mind.



Thanks for your response xris. I'm simply not sure what to think; I noticed that we had had some mis-cross communication on the Biblical Text thread too. Let me explain a point in case (and this is very to the point, but is an effort to clear up some seeming difficulties:

[indent]In your #36, on page four, you had made the following statement, and I quote, "No one has come back from being clinically dead." However, I had quite clearly pointed out in my #21 on page three, and my #31 on page four, that a number of people are resuscitated from the state of clinical death; because by definition it is not real (somatic) death. Now why did you make that statement in light of the fact that the information had already been there? It appears to me that somehow, some things I am presenting are simply not getting across, and I'd like to get a handle on that (if at all possible).

One clue might be here: in your #51 on page 6, you stated the following, and I quote," We even have scientists in desperation making up silly stories to put value into their findings.The best one is "beam me up scotty" how and if you destroyed and individual and reconstructed him or her in another place exactly as the original,the copy would believe he was the that person and carry on as normal..what a load of silly nonsense..."

It appears that you are talking about the science fiction story Star Trek created by science fiction writers, and ascribing that story to scientists. How much credit would you tend to think that this type of error lends to statements which are obviously incorrect, such as, for example, your #47 on page 5, and I quote, "Science can not describe or even start to have knowledge of consciousness let alone the workings of the sub conscious?" I hope you'd be willing to try to help me get a handle on this (again, if at all possible). [/indent]

Then, I'll just state this much here (before suggesting that if you (or Alan, or anyone else) would be interested in making arguments for consciousness being somthing other than a biological problem, to go there); consciousness is most evidently a result of the integration of a number of individually conscious structures and systems within the brain. Freud's ego concept was a bit off. Therefore it is due to many individual circuits working in unison and with other individual conscious areas that we have this emerging singularity-of-a-thing called consciousness. In that way, it is not something that one finds in a single area of brain material.

But to make sure that you actually have understood (since it was you who had asked me why I had highlighted the fact that these people who had reported NDEs had not died; as though you had not understood) I'll make it most clear.

It is far more intuitive to consider that just a person who has never been to, seen photos or movie scenes of, or read of, Kamikochi (a location in the Japan Alps) would not be able to truthfully claim to have experienced Kamikochi, a person who has never died, would not be able to truthfully claim they have experienced death. If one must actually die somatically, to experience death, then, one who has not actually died somatically will not have experienced death--and thus a claim to have done so would be false.

Trust me, xris, we are not machines with a separate driver in them, but if you wish to attempt to prove that idea, please do join in on the other thread (but please do be prepared to present harder evidence (which might have to be defended as well).
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 12:05 pm
@KaseiJin,
The atom can be split by accident but the chances of observing this is totally unknowable,to observe any function of telepathy under scientific terms is nigh near impossible.I say again why do you insist on the argument being centred around the point that those who experienced NEAR death experiences where not dead.You have failed to give your opinion on my theory or even attempted to reply,why should it be debated else where, it is relevant here?

---------- Post added at 01:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 PM ----------

Kj i have tried my very best to make a conclusion from your very in depth and informative posts on the other thread.I read it but for the life of me can not really understand your objections.I see how the brain has certain functions and again how we are subject to inherited and external forces beyond the will of the individual.Study the joint of meat but it wont tell you what the animal looked like.
I will ask you again to approach the subject from a diferent perspective.Design a machine, self serving, self productive, capable of learning, existing in one physical universe but not of it.It will learn experience but still be subject to the laws and the failings of that existance.Examine the possibilities not the impossibles.One example of proven out of body experience,is enough to consider anything.I have had more than one experience i can not explain so what should i assume, im mad, deluded?
0 Replies
 
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jun, 2009 08:09 am
@KaseiJin,
KaseiJin;68780 wrote:
I have not studied that much in that area, salima, but from the several cases I have come across and research tests on telepathic communication that I have read up on, the evidence shows a great deal of inconsistency. At the same time, methodological study formats don't seem to be so fixed (just like the 'benefit of unknown third party prayer) and study cases seem comparatively few, so my position is that no answer can be given, really. There may be something to information carrying particles that we have yet to really put a thumb on? It may all be a matter of cold reading mixed with pure random matching patterns? Who knows, really. I used to consider it much of a real phenomenon, but hold no opinion at the moment.

I am familiar with C.G. Jung's collective unconscious concept (which doesn't match with nature; most surely false) but am not familiar with any collective consciousness concept. However, if we use the standard definition of consciousness, I don't see how there could be any external, natural, factual truth to it. Regarding 'remembering past lives,' we'll run into problems fast, but that should be touched on later, I would suggest, and not here on this thread. Please help me keep it in mind.



Thanks for your response xris. I'm simply not sure what to think; I noticed that we had had some mis-cross communication on the Biblical Text thread too. Let me explain a point in case (and this is very to the point, but is an effort to clear up some seeming difficulties:[INDENT]In your #36, on page four, you had made the following statement, and I quote, "No one has come back from being clinically dead." However, I had quite clearly pointed out in my #21 on page three, and my #31 on page four, that a number of people are resuscitated from the state of clinical death; because by definition it is not real (somatic) death. Now why did you make that statement in light of the fact that the information had already been there? It appears to me that somehow, some things I am presenting are simply not getting across, and I'd like to get a handle on that (if at all possible).

One clue might be here: in your #51 on page 6, you stated the following, and I quote," We even have scientists in desperation making up silly stories to put value into their findings.The best one is "beam me up scotty" how and if you destroyed and individual and reconstructed him or her in another place exactly as the original,the copy would believe he was the that person and carry on as normal..what a load of silly nonsense..."

It appears that you are talking about the science fiction story Star Trek created by science fiction writers, and ascribing that story to scientists. How much credit would you tend to think that this type of error lends to statements which are obviously incorrect, such as, for example, your #47 on page 5, and I quote, "Science can not describe or even start to have knowledge of consciousness let alone the workings of the sub conscious?" I hope you'd be willing to try to help me get a handle on this (again, if at all possible). [/INDENT]Then, I'll just state this much here (before suggesting that if you (or Alan, or anyone else) would be interested in making arguments for consciousness being somthing other than a biological problem, to go there); consciousness is most evidently a result of the integration of a number of individually conscious structures and systems within the brain. Freud's ego concept was a bit off. Therefore it is due to many individual circuits working in unison and with other individual conscious areas that we have this emerging singularity-of-a-thing called consciousness. In that way, it is not something that one finds in a single area of brain material.

But to make sure that you actually have understood (since it was you who had asked me why I had highlighted the fact that these people who had reported NDEs had not died; as though you had not understood) I'll make it most clear.

It is far more intuitive to consider that just a person who has never been to, seen photos or movie scenes of, or read of, Kamikochi (a location in the Japan Alps) would not be able to truthfully claim to have experienced Kamikochi, a person who has never died, would not be able to truthfully claim they have experienced death. If one must actually die somatically, to experience death, then, one who has not actually died somatically will not have experienced death--and thus a claim to have done so would be false.

Trust me, xris, we are not machines with a separate driver in them, but if you wish to attempt to prove that idea, please do join in on the other thread (but please do be prepared to present harder evidence (which might have to be defended as well).


Please let them stop your hear, diagnose you as heart and brain dead and then revive you, only then can you really know the truth of this matter

Hek guys did you not read my last post, it relates to my own NDE event, I think I must remove it??


You know what you might have brought me to the point that I am starting to think you are an illusion or delusion of my silly mind, in the land of the sane the madman is king?

Respectfully all this Jung stuff does not enlighten me, I read what others like myself have experience

If I were to climb Mount Everest I would ask sir Edmond Hillary not you, how to climb it, and I am only using this analogy in the most respectful way

Your are a great contributer but so is xis and salima, and hopefully poor little me at times

I have pulled up my chair and reading intensely now

Please have a look at the video and please tell me why this lady was delusional

Videos about NDEs - Near Death Experiences
0 Replies
 
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jun, 2009 01:06 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;68235 wrote:
I disagree in the absolute, I have been where "you never have been",and yet you keep telling me I have not. It has nothing to do with my bipolar

Do my posts indicate a dysfunctional damaged brain to you?

I know what I know and there are something I know that you do not know, can you bring yourself to at least accept that as a fact? Of course the reverse must apply

The negative non body is a very wrong term , a non body is a nothing non existence thing. I existed in a body but an ethereal body with much higher sensory abilities than our material one. Think of it as a quantum field if you like, this field can see right down into the infinitesimal world for example

Just becuase you cant rap your mind around it scientifically does not mean NDE do not happen or are not peeks into the glory of what lays beyond physical death

A Neutrino are said to be ably to go through light years of lead , why then is an ethereal soul body so silly to your??

I appreciate your contributions to this thread it makes the whole thing so much more interesting, thank you!

(September 1, 2005) http://www.near-death.com/images/newsletter/icons/n/nde_and_the_afterlife.jpg http://www.near-death.com/images/graphics/scenery/clouds/katrina_hurricane.jpgOn April 26, 2005, webmaster Kevin Williams received an email from near-death experiencer Alan McDougall informing him of a dream he had the previous night. The subject of the email was "Dream of a disaster from Alan" and this was the contents of the email (verbatim):
"Dear All, Last night the 26/4/2005 at 4 a.m. I dreamed of a disaster happening somewhere on the Earth at the time that the young peaches are still green in South Africa. This is between August and October. Love, Alan."

Alan also predicted the Tsunami Disaster that hit Indonesia on Dec. 26, 2004 (see Near-Death Newsletter Jan. 15, 2005).


Peace


Guys please go to the link and you will see I had visions of future events before they happened and posted them on Kevin Williams Near Death Website

While there have a look at some other NDE accounts that are also very interesting

Alan
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jun, 2009 01:02 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Removed by Alan not sure if I can use copyright articles so I took it off
xris
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jun, 2009 01:33 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan i think we have come to the point where Kj thinks he has nothing more to add.He thinks he has explained his position to the point that he can not advance the debate any further.He i am afraid assumes we are the only ones who dont understand his reasoning and we are beyond scientific redemption.I have read and reread his posts and for me his arguments stay the same whatever or however we try to change his perspective.He appears to believe he knows where the conscious mind abides and refuses that others who can not accept his reasoning have a valid opposing view.
You could produce a million examples but they would all be fraudulent or delusional in his opinion.If i am wrong i apologize but by his absence i assume this is his stand point.Thanks xris..
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jun, 2009 03:35 pm
@xris,
xris;71148 wrote:
Alan i think we have come to the point where Kj thinks he has nothing more to add.He thinks he has explained his position to the point that he can not advance the debate any further.He i am afraid assumes we are the only ones who dont understand his reasoning and we are beyond scientific redemption.I have read and reread his posts and for me his arguments stay the same whatever or however we try to change his perspective.He appears to believe he knows where the conscious mind abides and refuses that others who can not accept his reasoning have a valid opposing view.
You could produce a million examples but they would all be fraudulent or delusional in his opinion.If i am wrong i apologize but by his absence i assume this is his stand point.Thanks xris..


Noted xris I am not sure how one can use a copyright article from one forum to another, so I will just remove my posts. If you leave the copyriht indicator like i did is that OK?
0 Replies
 
salima
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jun, 2009 05:10 pm
@xris,
xris;71148 wrote:
Alan i think we have come to the point where Kj thinks he has nothing more to add.He thinks he has explained his position to the point that he can not advance the debate any further.He i am afraid assumes we are the only ones who dont understand his reasoning and we are beyond scientific redemption.I have read and reread his posts and for me his arguments stay the same whatever or however we try to change his perspective.He appears to believe he knows where the conscious mind abides and refuses that others who can not accept his reasoning have a valid opposing view.
You could produce a million examples but they would all be fraudulent or delusional in his opinion.If i am wrong i apologize but by his absence i assume this is his stand point.Thanks xris..


last i remember hearing from kj he was really busy-i dont think he is posting now...
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 06:47 am
@salima,


Typical accounts given by NDE patients

NDE patients record an after death consciousness and an
Expanded reality after clinical death. NDE patients often record
How they seemed to leave their bodies, and were often very
Accurate in their descriptions of the operating theatre or

Emergency Room. Their accounts are chronological, with a
Beginning and an end.

The accounts often included Biblical subjects, such as
Angels, demons, Heaven, and Hell. The accounts bear a striking
Similarity to each other and the NDE patients insist that they are

Nothing like a dream or hallucination. In addition, children often
Provide startling accounts of NDE's.
Added credibility given to the NDE experience

The phenomenon of NDE's was given considerably more
Credibility when Maria, a migrant worker from Eastern Europe,
Died in an Intensive Care Unit in Seattle.

Following her resuscitation she described to the medical staff
Her out of body experiences both on the ceiling of the ICU, and
Also above the hospital itself. She also described a tennis shoe,
Which, she claimed, had been left on the roof of the hospital? The

Medical staff was shocked to discover that the tennis shoe was
In fact present on the roof of the hospital, which Maria had no
Way of knowing, other than through her NDE experiences.
0 Replies
 
sirennikki21
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 11:18 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Hello, I am just trying to figure some stuff out, well most my life. I research and research and I find the stories of near death experiences to be calming but at the same time I go back and forth through scriptures allot of the scripture I understand one way but then seems as though they shift in a another. One thing I am worried about is it says that human kind will be tricked by what they call the evil one or Satan which also means the light barer 'confusing lol ' with spreading lies with some truth and that most will fall for this lie. I don't know what exact lie or if it had already happened but Jesus or whatever ells u would call the saver said he would come not to bring peace. So I am just so confused because in one way I see the story of Mellen as being calming and assuring and in another manner I think is this that new great lie of deception? Because it mentions over and over again how 1.god is self- so denying one Jesus? 2. The great light every thing is light- light barer? Black White Grey? One neat thing I found is while taking the words the bible from the passage about why we suffer from eating from the tree of good and evil and I translated them from Hebrew separably and I got that it say's cause you left god , you suffer cause you left god. I don't Know I just want some peace on all this. Thanks
dewachen
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2012 10:31 am
@sirennikki21,
There are quite a few lies out there. Personally, I don't believe Mellen-Thomas Benedict. I believe he took someone elses experience and twisted it since I have read this before and much of it has been twisted which tells me he doesn't understand. I just find it a disappointment that he would do this.

Regarding your conundrum perhaps your looking at it wrong. Have you ever considered that the programming from our parents and society may not be correct? Have you ever heard the term "Know they self?" How can one know them self if ones own experience is denied and instead one is told by their parents and everyone else that they should look no further than the pages of a book or a church which is really no more than group think? It is an unfortunate fact that people are brain washed. Many people all over the world belong to various religions which become their core belief, each either questioning their belief, or not questioning their belief because they are afraid of the repercussions of their own thoughts which they are told means they will go to hell if they deviate. If we are given free will then why would it be a sin to question conformity and embark on the spiritual path where the mystery becomes self experience? If a threat is used against you and discourages you from growth then that is a lie. I have been told my entire life to throw myself away and reinvent myself in the group. I have refused and one cannot directly share an experience with others. How then can one share with words that which is far beyond definition in which there is infinite possibility and growth? At some point all these conundrums will be nothing. Chart your own course we all have a common link to the source.
0 Replies
 
 

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