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Should prostitution be legal?

 
 
hue-man
 
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 11:19 am
Quote:
Prostitution should be legal. It is a very simple issue: the actual act, a prostitute and her customer agreeing on an exchange of money for sex, violates no one's rights, and does not directly or demonstrateably necessarily harm anyone else. Thus, it should be legal. However, some people do not seem to have clarity on the issue, and want to bring in lots of personal opinions and hogwash about how prostitution promote drug-use, violence, STDs, etc. In fact, it is anti-prostitution laws which promote all of these things. I hope that these statistics -- taken from the Prostitutes Education Network -- and my interpretation of them can show that. For clarity, summaries of each point will be in bold, facts paraphrased from the website will be in italics, and my personal comments will be in plain text.


Prostitution should be legal: the statistics prove it || kuro5hin.org

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Mara phil
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 12:11 pm
@hue-man,
I'll simply say, ether way people are going to do it, Legal or not, and fact wise when it comes to certain areas and age groups laws work like reverse-psychology.

Places were its legal to carry a gun - have lower crime rates
USA having the highest drinking age - Teens wanting to go out and drink more over other country's.
Smoking- Teens do it cause its cool and illegal for them to get any of it.

If you tell someone to not do something, chances are you probably just made them want to do it more. Its common knowledge to anyone with common understanding.
hue-man
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 01:22 pm
@Mara phil,
Mara wrote:
I'll simply say, ether way people are going to do it, Legal or not, and fact wise when it comes to certain areas and age groups laws work like reverse-psychology.

Places were its legal to carry a gun - have lower crime rates
USA having the highest drinking age - Teens wanting to go out and drink more over other country's.
Smoking- Teens do it cause its cool and illegal for them to get any of it.

If you tell someone to not do something, chances are you probably just made them want to do it more. Its common knowledge to anyone with common understanding.


While I do agree that telling someone not to do something can have a reverse-psychological effect, I do not agree that something should be legalized because some people will do it anyway.

Murder is illegal, but some people will do it anyway; stealing is illegal, but some people will do it anyway; but none of this means it should endorsed with legalization.

I believe that prostitution should be legalized for the same reasons mentioned in this article, as long as it is regulated. As long as it's done that way I believe it is ethical. It is illegal prostitution that I find to be unethical, but it only exists because over governments make it illegal.

Legal prostitutes are simply sex workers, just like porn stars. If the pornography business is legal then why shouldn't prostitution be legal? Both jobs receive income from sexual performance.

I believe that the illegalization of prostitution stems from Judeo-Christian moral values making their way into our public policy.
sarathustrah
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 04:16 pm
@hue-man,
It works in amsterdam... and i imagine in these economic times this would make quite a few job ooportunities Razz

personally im against this profession, it promotes a psychology i dont approve of, but my view is certainly not to be used as the guidelines for everyone so in fairness,considering whats been said:

You could open businesses with standards of practice... drug tests, std tests and prevention... it could make this 'necessary evil' of legal or not legal, people will be paying for sex... kinda like the debate of free clean needle sites for heroin addicts...

so yes, prostitution should not be prohibited. If anything, it would do better to become regulated...
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 04:21 pm
@sarathustrah,
Such a question's answer is helplessly tied to ingrained cultural norms. This being said, I'd have to answer an enthusiastic "Yes".
VideCorSpoon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 07:02 pm
@Khethil,
unclean foods, but that is not because of the fact that they did it just because
hue-man
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jan, 2009 05:41 pm
@VideCorSpoon,
VideCorSpoon wrote:
unclean foods, but that is not because of the fact that they did it just because


As far as I'm concerned prostitution is morally subjective. I would not do it, but I don't think that it's morally wrong for someone else. I just prefer not to do it; it's just not for me. I do not believe that it denigrates women or men, anymore than manual labor for small wages denigrates the worker. There is nothing inhumane about casual sex, and I bet you that most legal prostitutes will tell you that they enjoy their job, while most labor workers say that they hate their jobs.

As far as practical matters being incorporated into a religious text, this has little or nothing to do with practicality, than it has to do with self-righteousness. Celibates who attempt to dehumanize, or even demonize casual sex are being tyrannical and self-righteous; it's that misery loves company thing. For example, Saint Augustus got around before he devoted himself to the church, but when he became celibate, he didn't like the idea that everyone else was enjoying physical pleasures, while guilt free; and so he wanted to make them feel guilty. Contrarily, Epicurus, though he was celibate, did not demand that his followers be celibate.

Also, in terms of religious practicality, what about homosexuals? It is a biblical, and therefore Christian tradition to dehumanize and demonize homosexuality, to the point that the Old Testament calls for the stoning of homosexuals. What's ethical, or practical about that?

While I don't believe that legalized prostitution (regulated) is unethical, I do believe that illegal prostitution is very unethical and denigrating, but it is only illegal because the government makes it so. Illegal prostitution is like a form of slavery, not legal prostitution. I believe that regardless of our personal values, we should not standardize values that are completely subjective, and we should not be self-righteous towards people who do not have the same moral subjectives that we do. Like you, I believe that it should be legalized, and regulated to make sure that it is done ethically.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jan, 2009 09:15 pm
@hue-man,

If you are poking some one who has already been slimed by everybody and her brother and father too; what makes it worth the money unless you are buying a partner in crime??? It is already legal because they do not hang people for it...But it is a sign of a deeper injustice because sexual exploitation follows economic exploitation... As long as people are robbed as the price of making their bread, intimacy is always going to be difficult to impossible to have.. A prostitute is a poor substitute for a wife or a girl friend, but If you takes whores you will never have better at home...
0 Replies
 
VideCorSpoon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jan, 2009 09:48 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man wrote:
As far as I'm concerned prostitution is morally subjective. I would not do it, but I don't think that it's morally wrong for someone else. I just prefer not to do it; it's just not for me. I do not believe that it denigrates women or men, anymore than manual labor for small wages denigrates the worker. There is nothing inhumane about casual sex, and I bet you that most legal prostitutes will tell you that they enjoy their job, while most labor workers say that they hate their jobs.
hue-man wrote:
As far as practical matters being incorporated into a religious text, this has little or nothing to do with practicality, than it has to do with self-righteousness. Celibates who attempt to dehumanize, or even demonize casual sex are being tyrannical and self-righteous; it's that misery loves company thing. For example, Saint Augustus got around before he devoted himself to the church, but when he became celibate, he didn't like the idea that everyone else was enjoying physical pleasures, while guilt free; and so he wanted to make them feel guilty. Contrarily, Epicurus, though he was celibate, did not demand that his followers be celibate.
hue-man wrote:
Also, in terms of religious practicality, what about homosexuals? It is a biblical, and therefore Christian tradition to dehumanize and demonize homosexuality, to the point that the Old Testament calls for the stoning of homosexuals. What's ethical, or practical about that?
hue-man wrote:
While I don't believe that legalized prostitution (regulated) is unethical, I do believe that illegal prostitution is very unethical and denigrating, but it is only illegal because the government makes it so. Illegal prostitution is like a form of slavery, not legal prostitution. I believe that regardless of our personal values, we should not standardize values that are completely subjective, and we should not be self-righteous towards people who do not have the same moral subjectives that we do. Like you, I believe that it should be legalized, and regulated to make sure that it is done ethically.
hue-man
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 10:22 am
@VideCorSpoon,
VideCorSpoon wrote:


"For me, if anything made it into religious law, it had to be important for some reason or another".

Well this tells me that you are a religious person, which means that you don't really question that book, because you think it's either the word of God or the word of "holy men". Of course there is a reason for religious law - there's a reason for everything, but that doesn't mean the reason is right or just. The commands to kill homosexuals are not just. It was written into the bible for homophobic reasons. Commands to kill a man who works on the Sabbath are also not just. Commands to execute a person who worships a statue are not just. All of these laws reflect superstition, prejudice, and intolerance.

"

Prostitutes are sex workers. It (legal prostitution, not illegal prostitution) may not be work that causes you stress, or a job that you loathe, and yet attain pride from at the same time, but it is work. Redefining work for prostitution is once again that proud, higher than though attitude that I was talking about.

It is self-righteous to constantly bad mouth people who do have bad eating habits. It is, however, unethical for the state to prohibit the ingestion of unsafe foods, because it violates citizen's rights, and it is a non-coercive act. Some vices are bad enough that they should be outlawed because of the detrimental effect they can have on a society, but the state and society should use persuasion instead of coercion to discourage most vices.

"

St. Augustine's attitude towards sex has become the attitude of Christianity towards sex. He was promiscuous before he dedicated his life to the church, and many scholars think he was bitter for not being able to enjoy casual sex, or sex at all for that matter. Epicurus was taught by a Platonic teacher, but he was not a Platonist. He developed his own philosophy that was so distinct that it started the movement known as Epicureanism. He was celibate.

St. Augustine and sex

Epicurus

"Many people attribute the resistance of homosexual unions by the state because of "Christian" ethics. But the state is less concerned with Christian ethics more than it is concerned with issues "burdened to the state." To a point, it is actually a violation of the social contract between the individual and the state in that homosexuality does not allow for progeny of the lessor."

The state is concerned with the Christian values of the majority, because they need them to be elected. That is why American politicians kiss Christian ass all of the time. Also, in California the state did not vote on same sex marriage, the Christian, and homophobic majority did; and I agree with Thomas Jefferson when he said that the majority should never be able to vote on the rights of the minority.

"

The theory that anywhere near 50% of the population will become homosexual and stop procreating with the opposite sex if we legalize homosexual marriage, or at least grant homosexuals equal rights and benefits from the state in cases of civil unions is just homophobic non-sense.



We shouldn't be utilitarian (there are many problems with universal utilitarianism), but instead we should be extropian.
Icon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 11:01 am
@hue-man,
Legalizing it would certainly bring in a great deal more money in taxes for the governments. LoL
0 Replies
 
Kolbe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 11:15 am
@hue-man,
Damn, stole my point.

But the idea that sex is immoral just seems to be getting less and less serious these days due to deterioration of serious religion. However, some people may join the prostitution circle these days as a quick way of getting money for, say, a misplaced bet or an angry landlord. Due to its criminal nature I can imagine the whole situation being terribly hard to get out of. So by legalising prostitution, aren't you helping a lot of people?
0 Replies
 
Pangloss
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 11:25 am
@Mara phil,
Mara;41227 wrote:
I'll simply say, ether way people are going to do it, Legal or not, and fact wise when it comes to certain areas and age groups laws work like reverse-psychology.


Hey, people will murder and rape either way, so we might as well make those things legal too, right?

Quote:
PIf you tell someone to not do something, chances are you probably just made them want to do it more. Its common knowledge to anyone with common understanding.


Well, we do live in a society where we attempt to use laws to uphold certain standards. If the best argument against a law is, "people will do it anyway, so let's just forget it and let them do it", then I am unconvinced. You could say this about all of our laws. Let's see some type of evidence that institutionalized prostitution would benefit our society. What type of argument can you make?

Should we teach our children well to respect other people as fellow humans, and that it is bad to make members of the opposite sex into mere sexual objects? Then once they turn 18 or 21, they are allowed to run down to the local legal whorehouse and forget all of that worthless morality that we were trying to instill when they were younger?

A better argument for legalized prostitution would be to point out that both parties are voluntarily entering into this contract for sex, and so no clear crime is truly being committed. But with these types of things (like also illegal drugs or suicide, where people voluntarily do these things without clearly hurting another), then we need to look at the "neighborhood effects". Could the practice of legalized prostitution be a "crime" committed against our society as a whole? I think, clearly, yes.
0 Replies
 
VideCorSpoon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 12:13 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man wrote:
Well this tells me that you are a religious person, which means that you don't really question that book, because you think it's either the word of God or the word of "holy men". Of course there is a reason for religious law - there's a reason for everything, but that doesn't mean the reason is right or just. The commands to kill homosexuals are not just. It was written into the bible for homophobic reasons. Commands to kill a man who works on the Sabbath are also not just. Commands to execute a person who worships a statue are not just. All of these laws reflect superstition, prejudice, and intolerance.
Much ado about Nothing statement.

hue-man wrote:
It is self-righteous to constantly bad mouth people who do have bad eating habits. It is, however, unethical for the state to prohibit the ingestion of unsafe foods, because it violates citizen's rights, and it is a non-coercive act. Some vices are bad enough that they should be outlawed because of the detrimental effect they can have on a society, but the state and society should use persuasion instead of coercion to discourage most vices.


Actually, I would think that it is above all ethical
hue-man wrote:
St. Augustine's attitude towards sex has become the attitude of Christianity towards sex. He was promiscuous before he dedicated his life to the church, and many scholars think he was bitter for not being able to enjoy casual sex, or sex at all for that matter. Epicurus was taught by a Platonic teacher, but he was not a Platonist. He developed his own philosophy that was so distinct that it started the movement known as Epicureanism. He was celibate.
hue-man wrote:
The state is concerned with the Christian values of the majority, because they need them to be elected. That is why American politicians kiss Christian ass all of the time. Also, in California the state did not vote on same sex marriage, the Christian, and homophobic majority did; and I agree with Thomas Jefferson when he said that the majority should never be able to vote on the rights of the minority.
hue-man wrote:
The theory that anywhere near 50% of the population will become homosexual and stop procreating with the opposite sex if we legalize homosexual marriage, or at least grant homosexuals equal rights and benefits from the state in cases of civil unions is just homophobic non-sense.
hue-man wrote:
We shouldn't be utilitarian (there are many problems with universal utilitarianism), but instead we should be extropian.

There are problems with all systems. For all intensive purposes we should be Gunga-Din'ian.
0 Replies
 
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:06 pm
@hue-man,
Not that I condone prostitution, but I think that it should be legal. Anytime that a market with a demand is deemed illegal a dangerous black market results. Legalizing would promote public safety while also bringing in tax revenue. The behavior can continue to be condemned, but that does not mean that it has to remain criminal. At least with regulation, the spread of diseases and criminal activity into society is decreased. Here is another consideration. Prostitutes could be required to go through drug testing, thus, eliminating the problem of using prostitution to support dangerous drug habits.

It should not be the job of the government to be the moral police in the first place. Education should be helping form characters that avoid behavior that could be considered immoral. Laws that regulate morality fail miserably. Drugs remain even though a war has been declared on them for decades. Prohibition worked wonderfully as well in the United States.
Pangloss
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:28 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus;42681 wrote:
Laws that regulate morality fail miserably.


Laws at the simplest level basically dictate a minimum moral standard of living to the citizens. They do not work perfectly, but that is no reason to abandon the law entirely.
Icon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:36 pm
@Pangloss,
Pangloss wrote:
Laws at the simplest level basically dictate a minimum moral standard of living to the citizens. They do not work perfectly, but that is no reason to abandon the law entirely.

America has an incredibly high crime rate... so to counter it they make more laws... thus more things become illegal... thus more laws are broken... thus more laws are made... viscious cycle.


The fewer constraints, the less tempted to break free.
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:36 pm
@Pangloss,
It should be legal and free to those over sixty and so should free holidays in Burmuda for those over sixty five, male with blue eyes and whose name starts with X.All inclusive if you have grey hair and your belly hangs over your belt..
0 Replies
 
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:43 pm
@Pangloss,
Pangloss wrote:
Laws at the simplest level basically dictate a minimum moral standard of living to the citizens. They do not work perfectly, but that is no reason to abandon the law entirely.


Sorry, what I meant were laws that regulate behavior that does not harm any one but the participants of the behavior are miserable failures (e.g. Prohibition of alcohol and other drugs, prostitution).

It seem though just the idea of making more laws does absolutely nothing to reduce crime as Icon pointed out. It just allows for potentially more criminals. Nowadays, crime is big business. More crime means more money for certain people. People which coincidentally have accumulated political wealth over the years.
0 Replies
 
Pangloss
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:50 pm
@hue-man,
For prostitution and drugs, we aren't really making a whole lot of new laws. Just struggling with how best to enforce the original laws we came up with.
 

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