8
   

Does earths gravity cause time?

 
 
DJMaux
 
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 04:32 am
Ok just a quick one.
I have a therory that time is actually caused by earths gravity.
I read on a website that if you put a clock on the first floor of a building it will actually run faster that a clock on the 50th floor.
I think it might be a bit of a consipracy.
Maybe on reason why nasa never landed on the moon is because if they left earths gravity, when they came back years will of passed on earth.
Also the theory goes that if you travel to the center of the earth for say 10 years, only a few seconds will of passed on earth.
So if you go outward time on earth speeds up and if you go inward time on earth slows down.
At first I thought my idea whas a bit crazy but i came across a few websites that said gravity causes time.
I also remember a game I played oin the snes called illusion of gaia thats name changed to illusion of time. That made me think..
Do any of you guys have any thoughts on this theory?
Is nasa in knowledge of a big conspiracy? Or am I wrong some how.
Like I said I dont know anything for sure. This is just an idea
Comments please?
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DJMaux
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 05:00 am
@DJMaux,
Of course the other thing that backs up this theory is the fact that black holes are a massive source of gravity and they also bend time.
so gravity = time????
0 Replies
 
Kielicious
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 06:58 pm
@DJMaux,
DJMaux wrote:
Ok just a quick one.
I have a therory that time is actually caused by earths gravity. *Citation Needed*
I read on a website that if you put a clock on the first floor of a building it will actually run faster that a clock on the 50th floor. *Citation Needed*
I think it might be a bit of a consipracy.
Maybe on reason why nasa never landed on the moon is because if they left earths gravity, when they came back years will of passed on earth. *Citation Needed*
Also the theory goes that if you travel to the center of the earth for say 10 years, only a few seconds will of passed on earth. *Citation Needed*
So if you go outward time on earth speeds up and if you go inward time on earth slows down. *Citation Needed*
At first I thought my idea whas a bit crazy but i came across a few websites that said gravity causes time. *Citation Needed*
I also remember a game I played oin the snes called illusion of gaia thats name changed to illusion of time. That made me think.. *sentence fragment*
Do any of you guys have any thoughts on this theory?
Is nasa in knowledge of a big conspiracy? Or am I wrong some how.
Like I said I dont know anything for sure. This is just an idea
Comments please?


You seem all over the place with your thoughts. Maybe if you organize your thoughts better and cite some sources you might get better responses. No offense, just trying to understand what your saying exactly.
boagie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 07:07 pm
@Kielicious,
Smile
I would say gravity in motion causes time, the changing relations of the spheres effect the duration of the relations of biology on earth. So even that which is not cognitively registered, its effect is registered at a more fundamental level of our biology.
0 Replies
 
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 07:38 pm
@DJMaux,
DJMaux wrote:
Ok just a quick one.
I have a therory that time is actually caused by earths gravity.
I read on a website that if you put a clock on the first floor of a building it will actually run faster that a clock on the 50th floor.
I think it might be a bit of a consipracy.
Maybe on reason why nasa never landed on the moon is because if they left earths gravity, when they came back years will of passed on earth.
Also the theory goes that if you travel to the center of the earth for say 10 years, only a few seconds will of passed on earth.
So if you go outward time on earth speeds up and if you go inward time on earth slows down.
At first I thought my idea whas a bit crazy but i came across a few websites that said gravity causes time.
I also remember a game I played oin the snes called illusion of gaia thats name changed to illusion of time. That made me think..
Do any of you guys have any thoughts on this theory?
Is nasa in knowledge of a big conspiracy? Or am I wrong some how.
Like I said I dont know anything for sure. This is just an idea
Comments please?


First off, don't believe everything you read on Websites. There is a lot of bogus information floating around on the Interwebs. One such example is that NASA never made it to the moon. The reflectors placed on the moon were put there by these astronauts to bounce lasers back an forth to measure how far the moon is from the earth.

Second, what type of time are you talking about--human measurement time based on the rotation of the earth on its axis it revolution around the sun, or space-time (aka the fourth dimension)?

Third, there is no conspiracy here, it is just that people generally do not understand Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, and thus, draw erroneous conclusions. You are making far more out of time dilation than what it is, and in fact is only significant near massive objects (e.g. black holes).

Fourth, this thread does not belong in the philosophy of science, considering it misinterprets scientific data and draws erroneous conclusions.
0 Replies
 
nameless
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2009 02:03 am
@DJMaux,
DJMaux;51449 wrote:

I read on a website that if you put a clock on the first floor of a building it will actually run faster that a clock on the 50th floor.

Actually it is slower on the bottom floor. The top of your head ages faster than the soles of your feet by nanoseconds/year.
From the New Scientist Magazine; Super clocks: More accurate than time itself
0 Replies
 
DJMaux
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2009 04:57 am
@DJMaux,
Ah so i have it the wrong way round...so if you go up several miles time on earth would seem to pass more slowly. Cool and yes i agree that the time dialtion may not be as much as a black hole. I thought that if you went to the center of the earth that the time dilation was infinite so at the center of the earth time would move infinitly quickly on the surface of the earth cause time runs slower (for you) the closer you are to the center. Dam its getting me confused now. But yeah slower time means faster earth surface time and faster time means slower earth surface time.

Anyway thanks for your replys.
0 Replies
 
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2009 05:32 am
@DJMaux,
It is a fact of empirical science that gravity and mass have a direct effect on how fast or slow times flows relative to the universal time constant.

On a massive plant like Jupiter or an ever hugely more massive neutron star time will slow down relative to earth time

The reason that the speed of light can not be exceeded is due to the speeding object increasing its mass up toward infinity, time will stop and our universe might become a huge single neutron

This effect is even measurable between two brothers one working at the very top of a thousand foot high building and the other on the ground floor.

Of course even over a life time of working in this building the time differences between them reflected in their biological ages would be vanishingly small immeasurably tiny

But if they could hypothetically continue to work day and night for a trillion billion years the brother at the bottom where the gravity is less will be considerably older than is brother at the top

Physics often makes no sense
nameless
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2009 04:13 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;51759 wrote:
It is a fact of empirical science that gravity and mass have a direct effect on how fast or slow times flows relative to the universal time constant.

Hahahhaa.. there is no such thing as a "universal time constant".

Quote:
The reason that the speed of light can not be exceeded is due to..

Actually the speed of light (in a 'vacuum') is exceeded by some ''elementary particles', and by 'transmitted information', which can be instantaneous across light years!
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Mar, 2009 05:20 pm
@nameless,
nameless


Quote:

Hahahhaa.. there is no such thing as a "universal time constant".



OK then tell me what is the speed of light relative to?

Quote:

Actually the speed of light (in a 'vacuum') is exceeded by some ''elementary particles', and by 'transmitted information', which can be instantaneous across light years!


If you are referring to quantum entanglement and non locality then what you state is correct. Somehow a quantum particle reacts in concert with another particle even if they at a million light years apart. Each seems to know what the other is doing . Thus information faster than light speed indeed instantaneous

Quantum particles seem to defy logic in that a single particle can exist in two places at the same moment or time etc etc
nameless
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 01:50 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;52399 wrote:
OK then tell me what is the speed of light relative to?

The observer.
Individual Perspective!
(There are 'quite a few' unique individual Perspectives (and their opposites) in any moment/universe.)
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Mar, 2009 04:14 pm
@nameless,
nameless

[QUOTE]The observer.
Individual Perspective![/QUOTE]


OK lets assume you launch off from earth and due to the time mass interaction, your space craft gets more and more massive as you approach the speed of light and time slows and slows for consequence greatly.

Be using some unimaginable energy source you slow down until you "STOP" in the abyssimal dark void 10 billion light years between to hugely separated dying and dimming galaxies in a cold dark universe

You find yourself hanging in the void 20 billion years into the future.WHAT IS YOUR OBSERVER PERSPECTIVE?

The only perspective you could possibly have in this unimaginably far future is TIME Light and time are different aspects of the same reality

This is what I meant and what you cruelly laughed at!!


Physics allows for this to happen , if one has sufficient energy and can speed up a space vehicle to just a tad below light speed, it is possible to advance almost into the other end of the eternal future

The only perspective you could possibly have in this unimaginably far future is TIME Light and time are different aspects of the same reality
nameless
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 01:42 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;52582 wrote:
nameless



OK lets assume you launch off from earth and due to the time mass interaction, your space craft gets more and more massive as you approach the speed of light and time slows and slows for consequence greatly.

"and time appears to slows and slows"
The 'appears' is an important factor, as the 'observer's Perspective is integral.

Quote:
Be using some unimaginable energy source you slow down until you "STOP" in the abyssimal dark void 10 billion light years between to hugely separated dying and dimming galaxies in a cold dark universe

Nothing is ever 'at rest' (stops) but relative to a certain, again, Perspective; from the Perspective of the table, the book sitting upon it is 'at rest'. But not from the Perspective of the moving van speeding that table down the hiway.
Ok, back to the illustration...

Quote:
You find yourself hanging in the void 20 billion years into the future.WHAT IS YOUR OBSERVER PERSPECTIVE?

I am never, NEVER!, "in the future". I can only be Here! Now! Never has there been evidence of anyone ever being 'There! Then!
So, this PErspective is, again as always, Here, Now! ("Hanging in the void", now there's something new...(sarcasm))

Quote:
The only perspective you could possibly have in this unimaginably far future is TIME Light and time are different aspects of the same reality

For you! it is an "unimaginably far future", Alan, but for me, it is cutting-edge Now!
We live in very different realities.

Quote:
This is what I meant and what you cruelly laughed at!!

I never intend to appear (to some Perspectives, you for instance...) 'cruel', but sometimes the raw honesty with which I speak can seem so.
It wears off, but, sometimes, 'something of value' remains, and the 'price' doesn't seem so high anymore.

Peace
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 04:46 am
@nameless,
nameless

Quote:
Nothing is ever 'at rest' (stops) but relative to a certain, again, Perspective; from the Perspective of the table, the book sitting upon it is 'at rest'. But not from the Perspective of the moving van speeding that table down the hiway.
Ok, back to the illustration...


I am aware of this thus "STOP" Einstein said one day thinking about a person jumping off a roof, he suddenly knew the person was both stationary and everything in the universe was moving relative to him and and from a different perspective the person was moving and the universe was stationary relative to the falling man

Thus everything is subjective and relative and nothing is absolute

Quote:
I am never, NEVER!, "in the future". I can only be Here! Now! Never has there been evidence of anyone ever being 'There! Then!


OK found myself relative to my own perspective hanging there and ending up when

The time dilation effect is real proven empirical science, and this distortion of time has been proved by putting extremely accurate atomic clocks on fast moving objects like airplanes and space vehicles.

The atomic clocks showed a definite slowing of time on the atomic clocks on the fast moving objects, when compared to the earth bound clocks .

Both clocks before the experiments were of course syncronised exactly

Moving clocks say 1 hour 1 minute 1 second .001 more mass slower time flow!

Earthbound clocks say 1 hour 1 minute 2 second . 000001 less mass faster time flow

Difference Between atomic clocks 1 minute .0001 of a second

This is just an example of mine and the actual differences between the two atomic clocks in reality were very much less

But the closer we get to the speed of light the greater the difference with sufficient energy (an impossibility really) you could have an earth clock set in the year 2009 whizzing around relative to the space ship clock moving at near light speed, which has slowed down almost to a stop., relative to our earth clock.

The space men see a star they want to visit after their relative 10 year journey. But unknown to them this star is a million light years from earth. They spend a year exploring a earth like planet and set off back to earth

To their horror when they arrive back on earth humanity has vanished and they have returned to earth 2 million years into the future

This is an extreme example of the twin paradox

Cruel statement just kidding man!! :bigsmile:
Bostonian phil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 08:58 am
@nameless,
nameless wrote:

Actually the speed of light (in a 'vacuum') is exceeded by some ''elementary particles', and by 'transmitted information', which can be instantaneous across light years!
There are no known elementary particles that travel faster than light. Such a particle would fall under the category of a tachyon and no tachyon has ever been observed to exist. There is also no known way to transmit information faster than light(FTL). Quantum entanglement cannot be used to transmit information FTL.
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 09:49 am
@Bostonian phil,
Bostonian


Quote:

There are no known elementary particles that travel faster than light. Such a particle would fall under the category of a tachyon and no tachyon has ever been observed to exist. There is also no known way to transmit information faster than light(FTL). Quantum entanglement cannot be used to transmit information FTL.


I think quantum entanglement might lead to faster than light information transfer, but I am not sure and will check this

While quantum entanglement is still far in the future, there is the exciting possibly of developing a super quantum computer which could solve a mathematical problem, in a few hours what would take the best present day supercomputers computer tens of billions of years

Quantum entanglement is a basic theory in quantum mechanics. "Even though separated by a long distance, the particles are correlated with each other

We simply cannot rule out the possibility that science will never expand on this theory until it becomes a reality where real information might be transferred instantaneously, regardless of distance
0 Replies
 
proV
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 01:52 pm
@Bostonian phil,
Bostonian wrote:
There are no known elementary particles that travel faster than light. Such a particle would fall under the category of a tachyon and no tachyon has ever been observed to exist. There is also no known way to transmit information faster than light(FTL). Quantum entanglement cannot be used to transmit information FTL.


Ultra high energy cosmic rays appear to have velocities above the speed of light and they have been observed.

Also, speed of gravity (gravitons?) has still not been reliably measured and by many theories it is significantly higher than c.
0 Replies
 
nameless
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 03:00 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;52651 wrote:
Thus everything is subjective and relative and nothing is absolute

Not necessarily...
'Everything' where? 'Everything' as perceived? Everything 'out there'?

Quote:
The time dilation effect is real proven empirical science,

That might be a true statement 100 years ago, but 'empiricism' is a refuted and 'relatively' obsolete and paradox ridden tool, incapable of describing our newly found 'reality'/universe (which seems to not include the erroneous assumptions foundational to 'empiricism').
Yes, time appears to do all sorts of 'squiggly things' at certain moments, from/as certain Perspectives.

I'm aware of 'science's' view of 'time' throughout the centuries. And the mystical views. A halucination, a dream studied with methodology and whatever, remains a halucination, a 'dream', and no more real than that. Cutting edge science, Now! is that 'time' is merely one Perspective of existence, and not an 'omniversal truth'. A halucination, seen by squinting from a corner of mind...

Quote:
This is an extreme example of the twin paradox

It appears that 'paradox' is a sign of 'error' somewhere in the 'process' (in the equation, the context, our perceptions, etc...).
A paradox is only a paradox from certain Perspectives.

Quote:
Cruel statement just kidding man!! :bigsmile:

Being the nature of this medium, there needs to be some hint provided to indicate 'humor' or 'sarcasm', etc... if not blatantly obvious, and even then.... Otherwise, 'time' and mind is 'wasted' on trivialities.

You know, Alan, it appears that the notion of 'gravity' is fundamentally as is the notion of 'time', a 'relic' of Perspective and not a 'universal truth' but another illusion/mirage/dream of the dreamer.
"As the sun obscures the stars during the day, so nothing obscures the fact that you are still asleep, as 'wakefulness'."

Actual 'motion' is not possible in timespace.
With no actual 'motion', neither can there be 'time' or 'gravity'.
Both are illusory mirages to some Perspectives.
There are Perspectives, realities, where neither 'time' nor 'motion' exist.
Without 'motion', of course, no 'gravity'.
Perhaps 'gravity' can be defined as a projection of a personally perceived feeling of heaviness, a feeling of weight, onto some 'external' universe. With no motion, nothing falls, though, from a certain angle.. if you squint and cross your eyes...
Hi there!
*__-

So, good thinking! in relating time and gravity!
0 Replies
 
Justin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 03:01 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
OK then tell me what is the speed of light relative to?


It's a relative misconception that light actually travels. It does not travel it reflects itself creating an illusion of travel. We see light as traveling but light is omnipresent.
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 03:03 pm
@DJMaux,
Nameless,

Can you provide any sources you acquired this information from?

Thanks,

Zeth
 

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