Edge of the Universe

@Axis Austin,

Have a look at the beautiful painting in the link below

Hi people, interesting topic and very perplexing at that. If you approach astrophysicist or most astronomers with the question, does the universe have an edge? The answer you will usually get is we don't know, out best optical instruments, the great telescopes at best give us a view of the observable universe.

What is beyond that barrier is slowly being revealed by more and more powerful optical and other instrument that use as much of the electro magnetic spectrum our science as possible, x-rays , gamma rays, to visual spectrum, infrared rays these instruments are all peering further and further into the unimaginable vastness of the universe every day, and more and more is known of the outer mysteries of our beautiful universe as a result

But we know the universe is expanding but expanding into what, the scientist will avoid answering this question by stating in is expanding into nothing because the universe IS EVERYTHING. That EVERYTHING is just getting larger and larger by the day

Try to rap you mind around that enigma?

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Alan, it is even worse than what you rightly say because it seems it is a priciple that the universe must look the same to every observer - yep, no matter where they are and even on a planet in a galaxy at the limit of what we observe.

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@Sir Neuron,

Sir Neuron wrote:

Well said!!!

Remember the movie "The Matrix". ... not so far fetch.

Does the universe have a limit or is it infinite.
Either is highly impossible. Beyond the limit of any object, we know, is the existence of another. On the other hand, It seems very impossible for there to be a never ending stream of matter, energy, vaccum etc.

The universe is an illusion of our brain (the most logical explaination to date), and so is our brain as well.

Maybe one should watch the following video clip to better understand.
YouTube - Perception - The reality beyond matter

That was really interesting.

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@Bracewell,

Bracewell wrote:

Alan, it is even worse than what you rightly say because it seems it is a priciple that the universe must look the same to every observer - yep, no matter where they are and even on a planet in a galaxy at the limit of what we observe.

And Caroline,

I have often thought about the observer of reality.In the quantum world of the infinitesimal such as an electron, it only exists if it is observed (you can check the truth of that if you like)

I think often about the reality of the universe, indeed the totality of all existence, if I cease to exist, then so does the whole universe, of course that is from my perspective and last moment of perception This is more of a philosophical idea than scientific of course .

So Caroline and Barcewell, from your point of view, if you guys cease to exist, as far as you are concerned so has the entire universe, making you infinitely important in the grand order of things?

Your mind and thoughts and observations are all that give it meaning, changing this phantom into concrete reality, but only concrete reality from your observer platform, who knows what another perceives

Is your RED my RED? maybe you see BLUE where I see GREEN and we both are wrong and both call it RED and of course if we are consistent we will never know, unless we can get into each others brains and observe out of each others eyes

A RED traffic light might always observed in this actual color through their eyes

Observer one: sees the traffic light in front of him thus RED WAIT

Observer two sees: the traffic light in front of him RED wait

But each refer to what they observe as RED, and in reality does it matter, it is all about personal perception so long as it is consistent between the two observers it does not matter, or does it?

Example RED? RED? They both use the term RED but in reality they are seeing different colors and just referring to them by the same name/color

Or is RED ALWAYS RED?

They are blissfully unaware that their perceptions are completely different and wrong

So who of the two are wrong?

If we take the universe as an another example, if there were no observer of it, great or small would it exist?. Many great physicists think the universe is just a phantasm our specter of our minds and so do I at times

Maybe the universe is just a phantasm or specter in the mind of all living things in it

Could a universe barren of sentient life be considered to exist, if so by whom and by what?, maybe a god looking at it from the outside. But why would such a god need to look at a lifeless thing or create it in the first place?

If that god got bored and cease to look at such a universe, would it vanish from existence?

2 Replies

@Alan McDougall,

Alan, if god created the universe then I suspect he must be a golfer and needed somewhere to play.
Your other good point regarding colours begs the question of why are emergency stop buttons always coloured red on dangerous machinery and why should the colour green be associated with it being safe to proceed to do something dangerous.
Now, don't do anything foolish as there will be a host of disappointed bankers with big bonuses and nowhere to go.

1 Reply

@Bracewell,

Bracewell wrote:

Alan, if god created the universe then I suspect he must be a golfer and needed somewhere to play.
Your other good point regarding colours begs the question of why are emergency stop buttons always coloured red on dangerous machinery and why should the colour green be associated with it being safe to proceed to do something dangerous.
Now, don't do anything foolish as there will be a host of disappointed bankers with big bonuses and nowhere to go.

The reality of the question that intitiated this thread. "The edge of the universe"

The universe must have an edge , but at the same time it cannot have an edge scientifically creating an awful enigma, a contradiction in terms the very worst of oxymoron's

Take the concept of infinity,infinity must exist because there simply cannot be an end to all that exists, but at the same time the mind revolts from that position and stated in no uncertain terms infinity is impossibly

Infinity is a fact not a theory but also a totally impossible. An impossible /impossibility and impossible fact of reality.

Like a road that goes on forever no beginning no end. Don't get stuck mentally on that road like I did, hypothetically of course.

So what do we do when walking on this never ending road extending out forever into infinity, we create a barrier, a brick wall and say OK now it ends, but wait where does the wall end? Does it extend onward like the infinite road?, no you say I will make a tunnel through the wall and continue my eternal dark never ending journey into nowhere.

To avoid insanity Alan has found a way out, I will build great amusements parks, cities , cross roads, hotels, stay in each as long as I want in my eternal never ending life, go back as far a I like change what I want, I think this is what I would do if I were God, maybe each amusement is a universe, one of them could be gods universe just made by him to play his golf, like you suggested, but wait who can god play golf with, Oh gosh I know, let me create a "golfer in my own image" , with the proviser that he can never play the game as good as I can..

Heck it is dark , "LET THERE BE LIGHT" :bigsmile:

Scary, Don't let your mind dwell on this type of thing it is very unhealthy believe me

Peace and serenuty those are the words

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Deranged Worlddance'of pass and future pretence
For its light energy's split personality
Of existing wave/particle duality?
Energy? - the predictable of unpredictability,
Awaiting its forces influences
That creates non-materialistic physical occurrences?

I wonder - of this, my enigmatic connumdrum -
Of the distinction between (the emptinessesSimply Complex

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@Axis Austin,

I personally believe that there is undetectable water outside of the universe (may not be in liquid form). It's an idea I based off of the 1st chapter of Genesis and various other scriptures throughout the Bible. I'll be glad to tell more about it if you like.

2 Replies

@Ichthus91,

Ichthus91 wrote:

I personally believe that there is undetectable water outside of the universe (may not be in liquid form). It's an idea I based off of the 1st chapter of Genesis and various other scriptures throughout the Bible. I'll be glad to tell more about it if you like.

Sit Neuton,

Now that was a crazy poem written by a poet "who did not know he was "not a poet"

Peace on earth, happy new day guys

1 Reply

@Ichthus91,

Ichthus91 wrote:

I personally believe that there is undetectable water outside of the universe (may not be in liquid form). It's an idea I based off of the 1st chapter of Genesis and various other scriptures throughout the Bible. I'll be glad to tell more about it if you like.

Water water every where but not a drop to drink..

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall wrote:

And Caroline,

I have often thought about the observer of reality.In the quantum world of the infinitesimal such as an electron, it only exists if it is observed (you can check the truth of that if you like)

I think often about the reality of the universe, indeed the totality of all existence, if I cease to exist, then so does the whole universe, of course that is from my perspective and last moment of perception This is more of a philosophical idea than scientific of course .

So Caroline and Barcewell, from your point of view, if you guys cease to exist, as far as you are concerned so has the entire universe, making you infinitely important in the grand order of things?

Your mind and thoughts and observations are all that give it meaning, changing this phantom into concrete reality, but only concrete reality from your observer platform, who knows what another perceives

Is your RED my RED? maybe you see BLUE where I see GREEN and we both are wrong and both call it RED and of course if we are consistent we will never know, unless we can get into each others brains and observe out of each others eyes

A RED traffic light might always observed in this actual color through their eyes

Observer one: sees the traffic light in front of him thus RED WAIT

Observer two sees: the traffic light in front of him RED wait

But each refer to what they observe as RED, and in reality does it matter, it is all about personal perception so long as it is consistent between the two observers it does not matter, or does it?

Example RED? RED? They both use the term RED but in reality they are seeing different colors and just referring to them by the same name/color

Or is RED ALWAYS RED?

They are blissfully unaware that their perceptions are completely different and wrong

So who of the two are wrong?

If we take the universe as an another example, if there were no observer of it, great or small would it exist?. Many great physicists think the universe is just a phantasm our specter of our minds and so do I at times

Maybe the universe is just a phantasm or specter in the mind of all living things in it

Could a universe barren of sentient life be considered to exist, if so by whom and by what?, maybe a god looking at it from the outside. But why would such a god need to look at a lifeless thing or create it in the first place?

If that god got bored and cease to look at such a universe, would it vanish from existence?

Thanks for asking AM. I think that you do not need to perceive it in order for it to exist, in other words just because you've ceased to observe it does not mean it ceases to exist, like that tree in the forest example, if it fell and noone was there to see it fall would it still have fallen, I believe the answer is yes.
I would question theories such as the matrix one because why Alan? Why would one such thing programme our brains into believing that what we see is something that is given to us by somthing that we dont know about, why go to all that trouble, what is their motive?
The reason i dont believe in the tree theory is because:-
science already explains to us that we see things because these things give out light, we pick it up and neurons send those images back to our brains, so the objects we are seeing actually exist, (or perceive to exist),
because they are giving off light in the first place that we pick up.
I agree with you on that point about-we see the common thing but actually everybodies perspectives are different and that's because we're individuals with different outlooks, perceptions etc.
And who knows what happens when one ceases to exist, in my belief Alan i dont think that when my physical body ceases to exist my soul will therefore the universe doesnt cease to exist either so i cant answer your question on whether that'd make me infinitely important in the grand order of things. But i do think it amkes me inifinitely important within the universe. But of course my theory on life after death is based on one experience which for all i know could be superficial and as always im open to changes. Smile

1 Reply

@Caroline,

Caroline wrote:

Thanks for asking AM. I think that you do not need to perceive it in order for it to exist, in other words just because you've ceased to observe it does not mean it ceases to exist, like that tree in the forest example, if it fell and noone was there to see it fall would it still have fallen, I believe the answer is yes.
I would question theories such as the matrix one because why Alan? Why would one such thing programme our brains into believing that what we see is something that is given to us by somthing that we dont know about, why go to all that trouble, what is their motive?
The reason i dont believe in the tree theory is because:-
science already explains to us that we see things because these things give out light, we pick it up and neurons send those images back to our brains, so the objects we are seeing actually exist, (or perceive to exist),
because they are giving off light in the first place that we pick up.
I agree with you on that point about-we see the common thing but actually everybodies perspectives are different and that's because we're individuals with different outlooks, perceptions etc.
And who knows what happens when one ceases to exist, in my belief Alan i dont think that when my physical body ceases to exist my soul will therefore the universe doesnt cease to exist either so i cant answer your question on whether that'd make me infinitely important in the grand order of things. But i do think it amkes me inifinitely important within the universe. But of course my theory on life after death is based on one experience which for all i know could be superficial and as always im open to changes.

Caroline...You don't believe in a soul or the possibility of a soul? Our perspective changes in the course of time, the tree may have fallen but did any one care? I only believe that eternity is less than a second away.Just like the song tells us.."tomorrow never comes"

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

Caroline...You don't believe in a soul or the possibility of a soul? Our perspective changes in the course of time, the tree may have fallen but did any one care? I only believe that eternity is less than a second away.Just like the song tells us.."tomorrow never comes"

Hey Xris,
yes i do believe in the possibilty of the soul, i believe that the sould does exist.

I always used to say 'why don't you ask the bug it fell on', when asked about the tree falling etc.

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@Caroline,

Caroline wrote:

Hey Xris,
yes i do believe in the possibilty of the soul, i believe that the sould does exist.

I always used to say 'why don't you ask the bug it fell on', when asked about the tree falling etc.

Sorry i thought your last post said you did not believe...Sorry the bug dont count, he does not understand how important we humans are and without our consciousness he could never exist in reality.When he develops his intelligence and can become aware of our existence he will be able to understand these things..

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

Sorry i thought your last post said you did not believe...Sorry the bug dont count, he does not understand how important we humans are and without our consciousness he could never exist in reality.When he develops his intelligence and can become aware of our existence he will be able to understand these things..

yeah i stopped saying that now.

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@Caroline,

Caroline wrote:

Hey Xris,
yes i do believe in the possibilty of the soul, i believe that the sould does exist.

I always used to say 'why don't you ask the bug it fell on', when asked about the tree falling etc.

Of course we have a soul Caroline, if we did not someone or something is playing a very cruel joke on us, come into the world, flash and we gone forever ? does not make sense to me?

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall wrote:

Of course we have a soul Caroline, if we did not someone or something is playing a very cruel joke on us, come into the world, flash and we gone forever ? does not make sense to me?

We are all part of creation/god/etc and we are all vitally important in this thing called life.

1 Reply

@Caroline,

Caroline wrote:

We are all part of creation/god/etc and we are all vitally important in this thing called life.

We are all separate atoms in the infinite consolidated ocean, within the being we refer as god. We can operate separately or as a colossal group mind, if we learn how to connect. But god is always, god remains the infinite separate primordial mind that pervade all of existence.

God is indestructible life, he endues us with the same life and like him we have no beginning or end

HE became us and we will become HIM .

Then we will truly be the Great "I AM"

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@xris,

xris wrote:

Water water every where but not a drop to drink..

Ideas should never be mocked no matter how crazy they seem. The idea that the earth was round was also a crazy idea but we now know that the earth is round(almost). So, if you're not interested in my idea then simply ignore it.

1 Reply

@Axis Austin,

it can be said that every single spot in our known universe is a possible exact centre point of the complete universe because there is no knowledge of any edge of space...

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Edge of the Universe

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