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Edge of the Universe

 
 
Reply Sat 10 Jan, 2009 01:19 am
This is my first new thread in the Philosophy of Science branch. I admit I'm new and not very educated in this area, hence my question.

Can somebody explain what the edge of the universe would be like? Is it where matter ends? I can understand that idea, but don't think it's correct. Is it where energy ends? Is it where something else ends? What distinguishes the universe from the non-universe? How are they different.

Thanks.:perplexed:
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Type: Discussion • Score: 3 • Views: 10,385 • Replies: 124
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Kreist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Feb, 2009 10:07 pm
@Axis Austin,
The Holographic Universe is one theory, based on the theory that the entropy of a black hole can be measures based on the surface area of its event horizon, as oppose to the volume within.

but, according to experiments, both measuring the density of the universe and shooting lasers into space to make a triangle and measure the angles, the universe is flat (the angles added up to 180 degres). so, if the universe is flat and infinite, there is no edge. if the universe is infinitely large, there is an infinite chance of an infinite number of possibilities happening, which would mean there are infinite copies of you an i out there.
John W Kelly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 01:22 am
@Axis Austin,
Axis Austin wrote:
Can somebody explain what the edge of the universe would be like?
We could probably spend the rest of eternity trying to answer that question! I guess my answer would be the position of the oldest surviving photon created from the big bang!Smile
0 Replies
 
nameless
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 05:50 am
@Axis Austin,
Axis Austin;41621 wrote:
This is my first new thread in the Philosophy of Science branch. I admit I'm new and not very educated in this area, hence my question.

Can somebody explain what the edge of the universe would be like? Is it where matter ends? I can understand that idea, but don't think it's correct. Is it where energy ends? Is it where something else ends? What distinguishes the universe from the non-universe? How are they different.

Thanks.:perplexed:

There is no edge of the universe.
The complete definition of the complete universe, in every unique moment, is the sum total of all Perspectives (us) in that moment of definition! .. Now! and Now! and Now!!
BrightNoon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 02:15 pm
@nameless,
If 'the universe' mean all, then by definition there can be nothing beyond or outside the universe. The universe cannot have an edge or an end. Whether or not there is an infinite amount of matter/energy, who knows...I'll leave that insignificant question to the mathematicians. :bigsmile:


P.S. I don't like mathematicians, can you tell... :poke-eye:
0 Replies
 
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 05:04 pm
@Axis Austin,
Just wanted to add this to the links already posted:

Observable universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
0 Replies
 
Krobmotoriker
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Mar, 2009 09:14 am
@Axis Austin,
Video: Wird sich das Universum wieder zusammenziehen? | alpha-Centauri | BR-alpha | BR
0 Replies
 
Axis Austin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Mar, 2009 10:46 am
@Axis Austin,
I thought (and I admit that I know very, very little about it) that the general understanding of the universe is that it is expanding. If so, it seems like it would have to have an end. If it's expanding, what's it expanding into? There would have to be something apart from the universe for it to go into. Thus, there would be an edge of the universe. I'm sure this logic is full of holes (if so and my understanding of the edge of the universe is wrong, PLEASE let me know).

I can ponder the nature of God all day and understand a pretty good deal, but when I try to understand black holes, the edge of the universe, etc. I'm stumped. lol.
0 Replies
 
Bostonian phil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 09:02 am
@Axis Austin,
Axis Austin wrote:

Can somebody explain what the edge of the universe would be like?
According to general relativity there is no edge to the universe. Either space goe on forever or it closes back on itself, i.e. if you a straight ray returns to where it originated.
Axis Austin wrote:

What distinguishes the universe from the non-universe? How are they different.
A universe is where space (or perhaps spacetime) exists. A non-universe is the absence of space (or perhaps spacetime).
0 Replies
 
Axis Austin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 01:36 pm
@Axis Austin,
What exactly is the absence of space? Is it the absence of matter, light, energy, dark matter, etc? If not, then I don't understand the absence of space. I guess what I'm asking is: what is space? Is it a void in-which energy and matter exist, or what?

Thanks.
proV
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 02:05 pm
@Axis Austin,
If space would have an edge, that would imply that something can be on its outer side too. So this would probably not solve much.

Axis Austin wrote:
What exactly is the absence of space? Is it the absence of matter, light, energy, dark matter, etc? If not, then I don't understand the absence of space. I guess what I'm asking is: what is space? Is it a void in-which energy and matter exist, or what?


It think there are many definitions of space, based from different theories. So looking upon specific theory you can also find its definition of space.
Holiday20310401
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 02:30 pm
@proV,
Bostonian wrote:
According to general relativity there is no edge to the universe. Either space goe on forever or it closes back on itself, i.e. if you a straight ray returns to where it originated.
A universe is where space (or perhaps spacetime) exists. A non-universe is the absence of space (or perhaps spacetime).


Yeah well general relativity is wrong to assume this.

The universe as it is defined, has a diameter of 27 billion light years, right? Thus, we have Olber's bubble. Why we have Olber's bubble is probably because of redshift....very basic stuff here.

Now this is probably not the intended question of the OP. Indeed, what is at the edge of the cosmos is harder to answer.

The universe as infinite is only an interpretation, it's just a value we devised. You get rid of meta-cognition and you get rid of the problem with this infinity gibberish. Infinity can only ever be linear in concept, yet is the same as a point since undefined dimensionally, which proves extension.
0 Replies
 
FireInTheWater
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 07:33 am
@Axis Austin,
The edge of the Universe is like the horizon.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 08:13 am
@FireInTheWater,
Its the same question as ,what was before the BB ? not even nothing..and nothing is something else..
0 Replies
 
Krobmotoriker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 12:12 pm
@Axis Austin,
Yes, i would say absence of space, means also absence of matter, light ... and try to imagine a carpet, a huge carpet and all matter of the entire universe is on this carpet. Now you can strecht the carpet and he is getting bigger and bigger. But it is still the same carpet, he just expanded and if something really heavy lies on the carpet, it would creat a ding. This carpet is your space.... I hope this example helps you to imagine ... Smile
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 01:30 pm
@Krobmotoriker,
Krobmotoriker wrote:
Yes, i would say absence of space, means also absence of matter, light ... and try to imagine a carpet, a huge carpet and all matter of the entire universe is on this carpet. Now you can strecht the carpet and he is getting bigger and bigger. But it is still the same carpet, he just expanded and if something really heavy lies on the carpet, it would creat a ding. This carpet is your space.... I hope this example helps you to imagine ... Smile
what lies beyond the carpet is the question..
Holiday20310401
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 01:55 pm
@xris,
And the carpet is the emergence of a larger system we do not realize (well we realize the premise, but we don't realize it). Emergent systems inside emergent systems inside emergent systems. It's all a fractal to try and think about.

And the idea to try and "close-in" the system... well you still get a fractal geometry, a fractal mindset. Perhaps the objectivity of the universe is just nothingness, that all there is can only possibly be mind orientated. Nothingness and er... somethingness randomly procreate each other with random/infinite results.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 06:36 am
@Holiday20310401,
Imagine a flying carpet with fleas all over it unaware of the hindu god sitting on it looking down on a landscape of mortals looking up at the stars wondering if the universe is realy a flying carpet with fleas all over it.....
0 Replies
 
jordan phil
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 07:59 pm
@Axis Austin,
I myself am not too educated in the field of science but if the universe itself is simply objects with nothing in between them is it not logicial to say that nothing can have no end?
0 Replies
 
Sir Neuron
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Apr, 2009 07:02 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401 wrote:
all there is can only possibly be mind orientated.


Well said!!!

Remember the movie "The Matrix". ... not so far fetch.

Does the universe have a limit or is it infinite.
Either is highly impossible. Beyond the limit of any object, we know, is the existence of another. On the other hand, It seems very impossible for there to be a never ending stream of matter, energy, vaccum etc.

The universe is an illusion of our brain (the most logical explaination to date), and so is our brain as well.

Maybe one should watch the following video clip to better understand.
YouTube - Perception - The reality beyond matter
 

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