mindlink
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2009 01:12 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
This very interesting but change is time, how can you say we have no such thing as time.We can not experience the past or view the future but we can measure time by our passing through it.If we where ethereal creatures time could be observed but not be relevant to us but we are creatures of time our bodies experience the inevitability of time.We may only ever have the here and now but that's the nature of time, we are trapped by the motion of time.


Time is change.
Time can be measured.
Time can be passed through.
Time is inevitable.
Time moves.

Are there any other characteristics of Time which this group can identify from their concepts of Time?

mindlink
xris
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2009 09:41 am
@mindlink,
mindlink wrote:
Time is change.
Time can be measured.
Time can be passed through.
Time is inevitable.
Time moves.

Are there any other characteristics of Time which this group can identify from their concepts of Time?

mindlink
Sorry but you made the statement we as humans have no concept of time only change..but change is time..:perplexed:
mindlink
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2009 11:47 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
Sorry but you made the statement we as humans have no concept of time only change..but change is time..:perplexed:


Yes. it was a poor choice of words on my part. Of course, humans have a concept of time -- they invented the concept to label and predict apparent concurrences of change. Because it takes humans a few milliseconds to process information received from our sensors of hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting, touching and subtle energy changes, we are unable to detect the instant at which change occurs. All we can do is observe the results of change, which results have already been stored in the memory storage units of our instruments, minds and in those other elements of the universe which have been influenced by the change. We have invented an ingenious filing system to help us deduce apparent relationships between observed results of change.

"This one result was observed at 08:15:43 on our time clock, and seemed to influence the creation of this other result which was observed at 08:15:45, two seconds later, (or two months later, or two centuries later, depending on which time clock we are using). These can be very useful observations which have enabled us to create some fantastic technologies. The point is, we don't work with changes, we only work with stored memories of the results of changes. The future does not yet exist. The "now" has become history by the time we become aware of it. We live solely in the past, and the past has no time. All events of the past are concurrent. Events that were stored in our memories five seconds ago are just as accessible as memories stored in our memories five years ago, and we can choose to recall the memories in any order we want. The memories may have labels on them to tell us when the events were first observed and recorded, but we can recall them at any time and in any order. As far as the recall of our memories is concerned, they are timeless.

mindlink
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Mar, 2009 05:08 am
@mindlink,
Catch the moment savour the instance , recall the elation..Yes we live on the edge of eternity, forever is no more than a second away and yesterday is as far away as the dawn of time.If we had forever would we consider time?........... Just a little mind game.......Obtain a reasonably large clock with a second hand.Find somewhere quite and comfortable.Place the clock in front of you so that it occupies most of your field of view.Think of a peaceful scene and relax ,you must keep thinking of this idyll while observing the second hand.Observe the second hand but dont pay it any attention while still thinking of this idyll.You will with luck and depending on your character feel the second hand slow down ever so slightly.It takes practice being able to think of your peaceful scene and watch detached the second hand.It should appear to slow down and even stop.As soon as the illusion works it becomes such a surprise it resumes its normal speed.Its worth a try..
mindlink
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2009 12:21 pm
@xris,
We are all travellers in time.

The writings of Wilder Graves Penfield, neurosurgeon, have indicated that each time we access a memory of an event, bring that memory into our current awareness, and let it influence our current thoughts, feelings, visions and belief systems, we have thereby brought the Past into our Present and let it influence our Future. We have also created a new memory of that past event and stored it in our brain, thereby letting the Present change our memories of the Past. We have travelled in time, letting the Past influence our Present and Future, and letting the Present influence the Past, as it has been recorded in our brain.

Some theories of Quantum Physics suggest that information about even the smallest changes in energy, like the transmissions of neurons in our brains, are broadcast throughout the universe, where they influence the energy changes taking place in similar (resonant) energy forms, which in turn influence the energy changes taking place in other energy forms throughout the universe, including the transmissions of neurons in our brains. These theories give credibility to the concept that each of us humans has access to and influences memories of events located in some kind of universal memory storage bank. I like these theories because they help to explain some of the "weird" (my daughter's expression) experiences which I have had.

Near Avebury, in England, while walking through a sheep pasture with some ancient standing stones in it, my wife and I both interacted with the thoughts, feelings and visions of a number of individuals in an ancient community which my subsequent research indicated existed about 5,000 years ago. We corroborated each other's experiences, which had significant influences on both of our lives from that moment on.

While walking through the Cluny Hill woods in Northern Scotland, I interacted with the thoughts, feelings and visions of an event which seemed to have occurred about 400 years ago, judging from the clothing and demeanor of the historical participants.

While walking back to work after lunch in downtown Toronto, I suddenly had the thoughts, feelings and visions of a young man who had been hit by a car and killed, just down the street a bit, about one hour before.

While working around the family cottage early one morning, I was suddenly looking down on my 16-year-old daughter and her boyfriend, lying asleep, naked, on the pull-out bed in the family room of our home, 45 miles away. I immediately got in my car and drove home, where my daughter and her boyfriend confirmed the accuracy of the thoughts, feelings and visions which I had experienced. (This was when my daughter said, "That's weird, Dad.")

And many more similar experiences which indicated to me that we humans have the ability to access memories which are stored outside of our own heads, from anywhere in the past: from thousands of years ago, to a few milliseconds ago. Those memories influenced my Present and my Future and, by creating new memories from my interactions with those past memories, I have influenced the Past.

I have identified some common factors of those experiences, like openness, receptivity and vulnerability, and some hints as to why I accessed those particular memories, but the experiences are mostly spontaneous and gratuitous. This form of time travel has given me a number of fascinating experiences and has caused many good things to happen in my life.

mindlink
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2009 01:45 pm
@mindlink,
Thanks for sharing your experiences mindlink.There are more things in this life than we could ever imagine.I think we all have our precious experiences..Thanks xris
manored
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Mar, 2009 10:11 am
@xris,
Thats quite interesting. Have you tried focusing into seeing specific events, or it only ever happened by "accident"?

I myself believe in the power the mind can have upon the world. At least, ever since I started believing that, everthing has been going smoothly well for me Smile Or perhaps its just a mindset so strong that everthing feels good and right then you have it.
mindlink
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Mar, 2009 10:36 am
@manored,
manored wrote:
Thats quite interesting. Have you tried focusing into seeing specific events, or it only ever happened by "accident"?

I myself believe in the power the mind can have upon the world. At least, ever since I started believing that, everthing has been going smoothly well for me Smile Or perhaps its just a mindset so strong that everthing feels good and right then you have it.


I usually only talk about the spontaneous events. Talking about the intentional events scares people. Most people, who promote the "we are all one" concept, do not carry that concept into the possibility that, in reality, there may not be any such thing as privacy, confidentiality or secrets.

Evidence or testimony that suggests that the power of the mind can influence events and the behavior of others is even more scary.

mindlink
manored
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Mar, 2009 04:55 pm
@mindlink,
I myself dont fear it, and I cant even fathom why someone would find that soo scary. Tell us about those your experiences of intentional world influencing, if you want to... but not on this thread, as we are starting to de-rail it quite badly Smile
mindlink
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Mar, 2009 10:32 pm
@manored,
manored wrote:
I myself dont fear it, and I cant even fathom why someone would find that soo scary. Tell us about those your experiences of intentional world influencing, if you want to... but not on this thread, as we are starting to de-rail it quite badly Smile


Thank you for the suggestion. See the Philosophy of the Mind forum, the Shared Mind, Shared Memories thread.

mindlink
0 Replies
 
balla23 phil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 08:26 pm
@xris,
some say that travelling to the past is impossible simply because we have not seen anything from the future come back to us...
mindlink
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 11:58 pm
@balla23 phil,
balla23 wrote:
some say that travelling to the past is impossible simply because we have not seen anything from the future come back to us...


Some friends once invited me to an end-of-July weekend in Lillydale, New York. A psychic there warned me of an automobile accident which was going to happen to me, where a green car would come from the left in front of me and smash! For months I was a very careful driver anytime I saw a green car, until eventually I forgot about the prophecy. Five months later, I was driving through a blizzard, taking my wife and young stepson to Christmas with my parents, when a green car, which had apparently slid off the road onto the median, lunged back onto the highway from my left, right in front of our car and smash! exactly as the psychic had described it months earlier. Some people have foreseen things from the future which will happen. This is sort of like seeing something from the future come back to us.

I have not found any rational, reasonable, scientific, or quantum physics explanation for these kinds of events.

mindlink
emily phil
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2009 01:00 am
@xris,
Quote:

Time, as we have invented it, is a filing system for keeping track of when particular events (changes) occur, relative to the position of our Earth and relative to other events. But that is all that time is: it is a filing system and a prediction tool. Unlike heat, light and pressure, time has absolutely zero influence on the changes which are constantly taking place in our universe. Relative to the creation and evolution of all things that make up our universe, time has no reality. It is just a figment of our imagination


What about entropy? Consider the direction of time as a physical process rather than a conceptual backdrop, and logical paradoxes can be avoided. If time is defined as an increase in entropy, then time travel would simply be a change towards less probable states of the universe. Instead of traveling back in time, events similar to the past would materialize before us. Time travel would act as a mirror, reflecting an image of the past without actually being the past. In this way, the original past would retain its quality. Any action we could do in this new past, would only effect the new future, not the present. There would be no break in the chain, no lost information or energy. But since we are only dealing with probabilities, there would also be no guarantee that the new past would appear identical. Due to the decrease of entropy, the farther back in time we could see, the less likely the past would look the same.
manored
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2009 10:45 am
@mindlink,
mindlink wrote:
Some people have foreseen things from the future which will happen. This is sort of like seeing something from the future come back to us.

I have not found any rational, reasonable, scientific, or quantum physics explanation for these kinds of events.

mindlink
Future predictions work because people believe on then and, by believing and taking measures against then, bring then upon thenselves. Even if you had already forgotten about it, you still let a strong impression on your subconscient who keept working to make it happen.

For example, I remember once watching a program about martial artists that could knock someone out using "ki", and could even throw balls of "ki" around that would knock out people. But it didnt work against the scientists who went to study the thing, because they knew it wouldnt work, while the people who went there to see the thing were made to believe it indeed worked by watching it happen to other people.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2009 11:00 am
@manored,
manored wrote:
Future predictions work because people believe on then and, by believing and taking measures against then, bring then upon thenselves. Even if you had already forgotten about it, you still let a strong impression on your subconscient who keept working to make it happen.

For example, I remember once watching a program about martial artists that could knock someone out using "ki", and could even throw balls of "ki" around that would knock out people. But it didnt work against the scientists who went to study the thing, because they knew it wouldnt work, while the people who went there to see the thing were made to believe it indeed worked by watching it happen to other people.
I think i might have told you my story! but i will tell it again.I had just fallen asleep when i started to see lottery balls falling..It was a vivid dream and I just had sufficient time to try and remember them before i awoke.I dashed down stairs to find a pencil and paper..I wrote down as many a could..My family told me i was mad and I did not really believe it myself. I only had five numbers so i guessed the sixth number.It so happened i put 6 down and a 9 turned up.So even in my dream one number was upside down.I managed four numbers and won 68 pounds sterling.If i had taking it more seriously i could have gambled two hundred pounds on the missing numbers and won over a million.It could be coincidence but the odds are pretty damned hard to explain.
manored
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2009 11:06 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
I think i might have told you my story! but i will tell it again.I had just fallen asleep when i started to see lottery balls falling..It was a vivid dream and I just had sufficient time to try and remember them before i awoke.I dashed down stairs to find a pencil and paper..I wrote down as many a could..My family told me i was mad and I did not really believe it myself. I only had five numbers so i guessed the sixth number.It so happened i put 6 down and a 9 turned up.So even in my dream one number was upside down.I managed four numbers and won 68 pounds sterling.If i had taking it more seriously i could have gambled two hundred pounds on the missing numbers and won over a million.It could be coincidence but the odds are pretty damned hard to explain.
You did believe, even if you conviced yourself you didnt, you did believe because you went there and bet on it. Why would you do that if you didnt believe? Smile

As for why things like that sometimes happen even then we arent searching for then, I cannot guess. Tricks of life I suppose Smile

Something similar happen to a aunt of mine. She dreamt with my deceased grandfather who told her the lottery numbers, and the lottery numbers proved correct. Unhappyfully my uncle forgot to bet Smile
mindlink
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2009 11:27 am
@emily phil,
emily wrote:
What about entropy? Consider the direction of time as a physical process rather than a conceptual backdrop, and logical paradoxes can be avoided. If time is defined as an increase in entropy, then time travel would simply be a change towards less probable states of the universe. Instead of traveling back in time, events similar to the past would materialize before us. Time travel would act as a mirror, reflecting an image of the past without actually being the past. In this way, the original past would retain its quality. Any action we could do in this new past, would only effect the new future, not the present. There would be no break in the chain, no lost information or energy. But since we are only dealing with probabilities, there would also be no guarantee that the new past would appear identical. Due to the decrease of entropy, the farther back in time we could see, the less likely the past would look the same.


You are using an understanding of entropy about which I am not familiar, but your description of time travel reflecting an image of the past without actually being the past, very accurately outlines my personal experiences with time travel. My interactions with the people and events of the past affect only the future, not the present. And, of course, my interactions with the people and events of the past create a different memory of the past.

Dr. Wilder Penfield, a notable neurosurgeon of the last century, observed that each time we access a memory, we create a new memory and store it in a different place in our brain. A childhood memory may be accessed and stored in a different place many millions of times in our lifetime. As we get older and our brain cells start dying off, we may still retain memories of childhood events because they have been stored many places in the brain, but we may not remember what we had for lunch, because that memory may have only been stored in one group of brain cells, some of which have since died off.

In school, I learned of entropy as a mathematical expression of thermodynamic energy, a statistical expression of probability, and an irreversible tendency towards increasing disorder and inertness. Fritjof Capra writes that the entropy of the universe will keep increasing until, eventually, the universe reaches a state of maximum entropy, also known as "heat death", in which state all activity has ceased, all material being evenly distributed and at the same temperature.

mindlink
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2009 11:37 am
@manored,
manored wrote:
You did believe, even if you conviced yourself you didnt, you did believe because you went there and bet on it. Why would you do that if you didnt believe? Smile

As for why things like that sometimes happen even then we arent searching for then, I cannot guess. Tricks of life I suppose Smile

Something similar happen to a aunt of mine. She dreamt with my deceased grandfather who told her the lottery numbers, and the lottery numbers proved correct. Unhappyfully my uncle forgot to bet Smile
I think the point could be made that even if we dont like the idea the future to a certain degree is written..how much it is , is the question..
mindlink
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2009 11:41 am
@manored,
manored wrote:
Future predictions work because people believe on then and, by believing and taking measures against then, bring then upon thenselves. Even if you had already forgotten about it, you still let a strong impression on your subconscient who keept working to make it happen.


I find it easier to believe in the non-linearity of time and in fortune-tellers than to believe that my subconscious has the power to create a blinding snow storm on the highway, to create a green car which slips off the road onto the median, and to create the green car lunging back onto the road right in front of my car, which just happened to be driving in the median-side lane of the divided highway in that particular instance.

mindlink
ACB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2009 01:57 pm
@mindlink,
We tend to hear a lot about totally correct predictions, but less about almost correct ones. I am interested in the latter kind, where one or two details are wrong, because they would provide useful information about the statistical likelihood of the totally correct predictions. For example, if for every fully correct prediction about a car crash there were 10 in which only the colour of the car was wrong, 30 in which the colour of the car and/or its direction of travel were wrong, and so on (and vastly more in which the crash failed to happen at all), we would find nothing odd. If, however, the proportion of incorrect predictions was significantly less, it would be implausible to explain the correct ones as 'pure coincidence'; we would need to look for some other explanation.

Unfortunately, it would be very difficult to obtain an unbiased sample, as incorrect predictions will obviously be under-reported, and many reports of correct ones will be false.
 

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