why religion makes no sense? please respond

It sounds like for yourself, you've answered your own questions.

There's a certain element in many people's souls; a belief that can go beyond the bitter realities others see. For some, it's constituency of meaning, still others don't affix strict definitions to their beliefs. There are as many views as there are people - and a reason for the term "leap of faith".

As a devout atheist I've been there; wondering and sighing at the faithful and the best bit of advice (that may or may not be of worth to you) is this - if I may exhort -[INDENT]Be patient, be understanding, be charitable. In those mindsets that seems so, so silly there is often insight and understanding to be gained. These are, after all, your fellow humans.[/INDENT]

well religion was developed for the simple reason to make u feel less than u really are that there is a greater force than u, well well well. dont think so.

"If oxen and horses and lions had hands and were able to draw...horses would draw the shapes of gods to look like horses, and oxen to look like oxen...and each would make the gods' bodies have the same shape as they themselves had."

Xenophanes

Ratta, we are all pretty insignificant when viewed from a certain perspective. It is quite likely that none of us will be remembered in the coming centuries and millenia. By cosmological standards we are specks of dust, by geological standards we are blips on a time line. Man often wishes himself to be great and tries to actualize this potential greatness and in doing so looses focus and violates all around him. The humbling of man in this sense is in my humble opinion, one of the greatest services religion might give. The idea that power is transient and given by god is a humbling one. I prefer to come to the realization of our own insignificance through an understanding of the sysiphusian fates we all share, and from this I also draw my compassion.

Remember Ozymandias:

zetetic it is good to know that u would have people suffer severe pain or maybe be born with a incurrable diseases only to find out that there was a greater force that them when really all theve been thinking about in life was having a good time and enjoying themselves . what about children who grow up with peadaphiles as parents and because they were trained to think of themselves as less than they really are. id love to sit down with them and explain just how important they really are. no less than god. for love isnt between father and child but exists between two equals that is the true sorce of love and life on this earth. did u know that if u go to court and are found guilty of murder and do time, even if that person still lives, when u get out of jail u can kill that person and never go back to jail. never think u are lower than u really are to someone very special. u are loved so graetly loved, death puts u down its just another trick of death to think that u really are that small. u think that love exists outside ure body or somewhere else no it exists in ure own mind if it cant live there it cant live anywhere so let a little love in will u please.

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does god know every intricate detail of reality or not?
if so then why create people who will use thewir decision makers incorrectly and go to hell

[/QUOTE]

To tell ya the truth, I have yet to see a reasonable, rational argument that ratifies the existence of both the divine and free will. I've seen plenty of noble attempts, but that's all it was, attempts. Either God doesn't exist and we have free will, or God does exist and free will is a lie.

There is a viable third alternative; that god does exist and we have free will.

Or that god doesn't exist and we don't have free will. The "things banging together" hypothesis.

Like I said, I have yet to see a reasonable, rational argument that ratifies the existence of both the divine and free will. Your third alternative isn't viable, unless you say something like, God exists, but he doesn't give a crap, and we have free will. If you're able to provide a reasonable argument I'll gladly entertain it.... and just as gladly show how unreasonable it really is.

As for god doesn't exist and we don't have free will, well, that could work I suppose... but it seems rather moot.

If I might interject, in my opinion the one word that has us all thrown for loops is the word "created". "God created the heavens and the Earth". How about "God IS the heavens and the Earth" evolving, period, and we are a part of that ongoing, synergistic process. Now that, to me, makes sense. Free will is for all to enjoy, not just a privilege of a few. You might ask yourself, who has free will, the teacher or the student, the parent or the child, the master or the slave, the King or the subject, the rich or the poor. It seems we are all at the mercy of the dictates of others. Or we are all subject to the conformity of the one. Of course that is the problem with religion, the one. Too bad there are so many religions for which one is the "right" one; the universal one. Hmmm? We do have a problem, don't we? How do we conform to that one, when we are all going in so many different directions? I'm all ears. As far as free will and god, I don't think you can separate the two. Either it is all or none. IMHO.
William

Perhaps you can explain this to lord shorty then?

[QUOTE]
does god know every intricate detail of reality or not?
if so then why create people who will use thewir decision makers incorrectly and go to hell

[/QUOTE]

My answer is simply that, if God exists, people don't use their decision maker, because they don't have one. But since everyone from athiests to the devoutly religious scoff at the idea of there being no such thing as free will, I can only hope that someone can provide a better answer.

Actually, you will find atheists and theists who scoff at the notion of free will. Determinism exists in both groups.

Anyway, the notion that God and free will are incompatible depend entirely on your definitions of God and free will. Certain combinations of definitions seem to make God and free will incompatible, but other combinations of definitions leave ample room for both.

True DT, but I guess my point was that, it seems to me at least, most people believe we have free will. The notion that we don't doesn't seem particularly popular. Again, and I say this genuinely, I'd love to be corrected on that though. If determinism is more prevelant than I realize, then I'd gladly be enlightened.

First, we have to understand that most people do not have well developed notions of philosophy. So pinning down their philosophical position on something such as free will can be extremely difficult, if not impossible. Generally, the position a person takes is determined by the context of the question.

For example, many people would say that God is all knowing, everything that happens is part of God's plan (in a very literal way), yet also go on to say that individuals are responsible and have control over their actions.

Second, we have to recognize that some embrace the contradictions in claiming the existence of a literally all knowing, all powerful creator and the idea that man has free will.

Indeed, I do recognize that others embrace these contradictions... I just don't embrace them myself.

Of course not. It is an (the?) existential abyss.

True belief in atomistic determinism (note: not deism) is essentially Pascalian self-lobotomy before the altar of science, but at least Pascal had something left to live for. The only true nonbelievers in free will (man's, god's or both) are the dead ones.

Guess that means I'm dead then.:flowers:

No, it means that in spite of poseur materialism, you continue to believe in yourself as something more than particles banging together. You are, after all, posting on a philosophy forum rather than lying in bed experiencing the ecstacy of entropy. The burden of proof is not on me.

eerr... burden of proof? I love it when people bring the old "prove it" bit into philosophical debates, especially religious/spirituality ones, when nothing at all in the spiritual forum can be proven. Sorry, the "burden" of proof is not on me either, cuz I refuse to bear it. It's only foolish of you to ask for it.