Violence

My question is do you think that society accounts for the human temper, or is the temper subdued by drugs/religion/lifestyle and not too much by social interaction?

I suppose what I am thinking about is the insistent pressure to conform to a standard of living that ranks social interaction very highly - in that to be anti-social and isolated is something this society works against - so is our society at fault in some way (on a level of social interaction) and causing violent urges in people?

I belive that society is putting alot of pressure on the induvidual to fit in but most of all I belive that the capitalist ideal society puts such great pressure on the low-vage iduvidual that crime-rates will be high, especially gangs since the pressure that society is putting on us is to fit in, cause if we don't, what good are we to the society? And that's the reality we are living in isn't it? If society doesn't need us we're pushed aside and thrown in the gutter..

Crime will flurish in any capitalistic society because of mentality like 'the american dream', get rich by any means.
"The only excuse for being broke is being in jail" - 50 cent, "How to rob"

And I'm not sure how the prison system function in America but here in Sweden atleast when you've done your time, you are released to the same streets, the same firend, without an apartment or cash so ofcourse people get stuck in the system, it's not easy to break that circle and so the system is flawed as best...

For the drugs, I think that drug's a sideeffect of the society pressure the induvidual is reciving, sometimes atleast. Ofcourse alot of people just want to get high and some kids want to be cool but for the ones that feel like they need the drugs, I think that's because they feel so pressured that they just want to escape that feeling, and drugs are great ways to do so. And ofcourse, having to sneak around with it because it's illegal also applies pressure, so they need it more and another circle is formed.

Note that I'm not saying that capitalism is wrong, I'm just pointing out the darker side of capitalism. However I do belive that extreme capitalism is wrong, it should be taken in moderation. America for example, is too capitalistic thus I belive you have such high crime-rates..

At the same time, we have a consumer culture. When we look around, the largest buildings are banks and corporate offices - instead of our greatest monuments being religious structures, they are for the purposes of making money. We build monuments to money. Our society places so much value on money and wealth - and this is simply unhealthy. Crime and disenfranchisement are the direct result of our wealth worship.

Instead of being shocked at Tupac, and having compassion for his predicament, we idealized his lifestyle. Big mistake.

I could go on for days about the problems of the American prison system, but this particular problem you have noticed in the Swedish system is also a problem in the states.

We have such a problem with being "stuck in the system" that many poor Americans have no problem going to prison - that's where their friends are.

What we have to realize is that a drug free society has never existed - and never will exist. Part of human life is the consumption of mind altering substances. What we need is real education about those substances - this "just say no" mantra has failed miserably, unless increased incarceration rates is success.

We have high crime rates for two reasons. The first is what you have pointed out, Wizzy - our cultural diseases. But Sweden and the rest of the developed world has these same diseases. So the question becomes - why does the US have such higher rates of crime than the rest of the developed world?

And the answer is two fold, both answers being closely related. American drug laws are one reason. Right now non-violent drug offenders make up some 40% of the US prison population. The second reason is racism. African Americans and Hispanic Americans are extremely overrepresented in our prison system. Of course, the drug laws exist to discriminate against blacks and Hispanics.

Yeah and yet, America is the most (atleast from what I've heard, not 100% sure on the figures) religious country in the world, which makes that one fact kind of wierd. And then you have "in god we trust" on your dollars, what the hell does that have to do with your money? (got nothing to do with this thread, just pointing it out)

Yeah that's a good point, alot of criminals and other get-rich-fast-die-young-people are beeing idiolized in modern times. But that's the world we live in, where somebody can live like a king because they can sing.. yay capitalism!

Haha, that's acctually funny.. "That's where their firends are".. haha (It's funny because it's true!)
Another thing I would like to know is how anybody can even think that to make somebody function in society to isolate them from society should do the trick?

I heard somewhere that US have 5% of the worlds population but 25% of the world's prisoners, might not be true but if it is, america is one F:ed up country..
Your drug policy is probably a big reason, yeah, but also that you have so much drugs then other developed nations probably makes a difference.
And for racism, you don't have monopoly on racism, belive me, most nations have overrepresented immigrants in their prisons but you might be over the medium, don't know if you are or not..

They lie to themselves. Seriously. The research has been done - incarceration significantly promotes violence in individuals after release into society.

It should be very strange, but this sort of perversion is not uncommon. Throughout history, religion has been a successful tool for violence. Even religions which pronounce the virtues of peace and universal love have been used, time and time again, to justify exploitation and destruction.

There was a time when they went off to war for riches and fame. Talk about violence.

They lie to themselves. Seriously. The research has been done - incarceration significantly promotes violence in individuals after release into society.

Over one in one hundred Americans are in prison, and another 750,000 or more sit in jails. Something like one in thirty five Americans are either in prison, in jail, or on parole. We lead the world in incarceration rates.
One reason we have such a demand for drugs is that we are so vicious in our long failed War on Drugs. We spend billions trying to prevent the use of drugs which people have always used, and the result is people making nasty things in their bathtubs. Just another wave of destruction unleashed onto the American people. Most notably, methamphetamine. Just using this stuff makes you more violent.

Well, the research isn't so clean cut as that because you're starting with a population that's already committed criminal (sometimes violent) acts. So there's no way to control for the effect of imprisonment on criminal behavior unless you have an identical control group that somehow is treated differently.

Budding

I think you take up a great point about the competition in life towards our neighbor applying pressure on us to 'succeed' in life but I just have to ask you about the people who like their job, like their family, like their firends, just like their whole lives but still loves to 'roll a fatty' every now and again just to relax?
Imagien the successfull painter who loves his wife and children, taking a syringe of heroin or sniffing a line of cocain because he can't handle life without it? There's no competition involved at all and he live for his work not the other way around, but yet, he want to get high to relive pressure, so where is that pressure comming from?

Have you every considered why sobriety is the default position for Human Beings? Through the process of evolution, the Natural World has provided us with a state of mind that lends itself to survival, by providing a group of senses unhindered from ancillary chemical influence, whereby arming us with the best defense against the multitude of treats that are ever-present in our dynamic world. To the individual who engages in the process of disrupting this proven state-of-mind, all bets are off for his or her survival. I personally think the desire to indulge in behaviors that require the use of drugs is a mental sickness that reflects an ignorant arrogance for the Natural World, a world that offers an eloquent solution to this lack of self-awareness, the removal of the individual.

But there is no example of human life without chemical influence. The very foods we eat have an extreme impact on our brain and the way we function.
This "proven state-of-mind" you speak of does not exist.

More importantly, there are instances where the use of mind altering substances actually promote survival. Opiates and cannabis are ancient medicines, both still widely used. Cocaine is a still used for medicinal purposes. Amphetamine has been given to soldiers, most notably the SS, as a battle field aid. Hallucinogens are common in indigenous American spiritual practices, and are said to have numerous health and psychological benefits by those people who use ritually.

No one needs drugs. I do not suggest their use; I suggest living life without them if at all possible. As they relate to violence, drugs are a non-issue. Sure, some clearly promote violence (cocaine and amphetamine especially seem to promote violence in users), but not all users are necessarily violent.
Basically, violence is not something necessarily tied to drugs. Violence is the result of poor human decisions. Every drug can be used peacefully, and every drug can be used violently.

In today's world, discrimination and ignorance has forced a violent black market system upon the drug trade. The British Empire fought a war with China so that the British could continue to import opium against the dictates of the Chinese government trying to protect it's population against the fiery spread of opium addiction. What we have to understand is that a demand for drugs will always exist. What we do with that demand, and how we control that demand, and the supply, will determine how much violence comes out of the mill.

You would know more about this than I would; however, what of the some 30 or 40% of inmates who committed non-violent crimes?

I think you take up a great point about the competition in life towards our neighbor applying pressure on us to 'succeed' in life but I just have to ask you about the people who like their job, like their family, like their firends, just like their whole lives but still loves to 'roll a fatty' every now and again just to relax?
Imagien the successfull painter who loves his wife and children, taking a syringe of heroin or sniffing a line of cocain because he can't handle life without it? There's no competition involved at all and he live for his work not the other way around, but yet, he want to get high to relive pressure, so where is that pressure comming from?

Sobriety refers to what is generally accepted as an individual uninfluenced by the use of a pervasive drug that produces physical effects that are not normally present without the consumption of the described drug.

Any attempt to con volute this simply realization with examples such as, the intake of food and how that effects our state-of-mind serves no quantifiable purpose as compared to the effects of an actual drug which can be empirical measured as it pertains to the pervasive cognitive influence over a Human Being juxtaposed to the default position of sobriety.

And I'm not sure how the prison system function in America but here in Sweden atleast when you've done your time, you are released to the same streets, the same firend, without an apartment or cash so ofcourse people get stuck in the system, it's not easy to break that circle and so the system is flawed as best....

And therefore all altered states of body/mind via substance are negative alterations?