Is Prayer The Last Vestige Of Sympathic Magic

Well Boagie, it's important that we have everyone here that wishes to participate. Everyone has different beliefs and that's unavoidable. As a Christian, it wouldn't help to spread Christianity if all she did was hang among Christians and I respect that. Actually, many Christians just stay with fellow Christians, and that's no way to build a faith or plant seeds. So I give her credit for being a part of all of this and speaking up. While I may not agree with everything, doesn't make anyone right or wrong. Ultimately we'll find our way.

Which Church?

Talking to God and praying can be two different things. Born again was mentioned 3 times in the new testament and out of the mouth of Jesus only twice in John. Twice in John 3 when talking to Nicodemus where Jesus explained to him, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God". Then Peter mentions it once in 1 Peter 23.

As far as my hypocrisy you've accused me of, understand that my words were what I discovered in the Christian faith. I'm not judging all Christians because I'm sure there are some out there that are actually earnestly trying to BE LIKE JESUS. Yet, in my experience I've only found but a few. This is not hypocrisy, this is reality.

Yes you are correct, Jesus did say he was the son of God. He also said that we are Sons of God. He further said that we are also Sons of God. The Church teaches that the Kingdom of God is like the land of milk and honey. On the contrary, the Kingdom of God is within all creation. The difference is the ability to see it, not just hope that someday we will pass on to the other side.

No, I don't believe that Jesus was praying in John 17. John may have written it as a prayer but that was not the character of Jesus to pray out loud, nor did Jesus tell us to do the same.

I've chosen the path that's right for me not because someone has told me to and certainly not because of what the Church has taught me. The truth will be found when it's sought after and it will be found in the still light in the fulcrum of our spirit. True and powerful prayer is something that Jesus showed us, told us about and instructed us on how to do.

So, I'm not picking and choosing anything here.

Boagie, Katherine is fine and we're happy to have her here opening up, nothing wrong with that.

Oooh, I love this post! Lots of meaty discussion here. I don't have time to respond properly now. I will try to get back Monday.

Boagie, I don't know if you didn't understand my post or ?? Your response was angry and not on topic really. Again, there is a lot of emotion driving your position toward Christians. I've been there, too. Even my pastor said the people who have hurt him the most have been Christians. Not because Christians are different, but because I think we tend to be quick to allow ourselves to be vulnerable to people who call themselves Christians without being aware of their level of maturity, and then take a special offense when they act like humans because we expected more. I don't know if that is what happened to you but just be aware we have to get freedom from the emotional baggage before we can pursue something on a truly intellectual level.

And manipulating the laws to not include persons of race, gender or religion is blatant discrimination. Even if they're Christians.

Religion and magic are two different things. Prayer has to contain a certain degree of truth; the more truth the more effective it becomes. Magic on the other hand is something else. The farther you move away from the truth the more effective becomes your magic.

No, Scientific American is materialistic. We are looking for a science of mind akin to Dr. Russell's.

Yes you are correct, Jesus did say he was the son of God. He also said that we are Sons of God. He further said that we are also Sons of God. The Church teaches that the Kingdom of God is like the land of milk and honey. On the contrary, the Kingdom of God is within all creation. The difference is the ability to see it, not just hope that someday we will pass on to the other side.

I've chosen the path that's right for me not because someone has told me to and certainly not because of what the Church has taught me.

Accept God as is without proof and you're accepting something positive. As Dr. Russell declares, only positives exist; they're real. Negatives are unreal (If you can remember back then Kodak had a lot of negatives hanging around and not many people could get along in photography). Well then if you take this positive idea of God into meditation you can then get rid of the negative through decentration as explained in the Home Study Course.

I think he means . . .

Is cold real? No, cold is our term for the absence of heat.
Is dark real? No, dark is our term for the absence of light.

Katherine,

What makes heat real,the absence of cold?Is it not a duality, both mutually dependent upon the other for defination?Really I am just puzzled at the avoidence of answering the intial question,where he claimed to know a degree of truth as a property of prayer also inferring its effectiveness could be measured in some way.


"These things do not exist as things themselves,but only in the absence of something else."

I guess this does largely answer my question,does in hold across the board in this dual world,is,is not, so many possiablities.

Katherine wrote:

I guess this does largely answer my question,does in hold across the board in this dual world,is,is not, so many possiablities.

Actually, they don't exist. That is not my view, that is physics. As for what our friend is trying to say; I do not know.

boagie wrote:

Actually, they don't exist. That is not my view, that is physics. As for what our friend is trying to say; I do not know.

Katherine,

I wonder if this could not be said of everything in the sense that everything we precieve is first conditioned and limited by our senses,then condition on a cognitive level.Cold,light heat ect,,are only so relative to a subject and are conditions or states. When considering objects we know there is something out there that we can never know---------Kant's thing in itself.

Katherine,I do not know either,if it is indeed meaningful he will have to put a little effort into making himself understood.His earlier claims proved to be unfounded or he feels himself not accountable for his claims---so take it with a bit salt!