Fear is what we fear, if we did not fear fear, we would have fear. Either way, we fear.
And yes, you're right.
Right, lets get this one straight. There is an entire concoction of things going on with our bodies and minds as regards to 'fear'.
Right, "Lets get things straight." First, the physiology and/or chemistry is not what is in quesion here.On to the topic at hand!
You are on course at first here, until your logic goes astray."So the fear stops being about the man eating lion,and more about the adrenalin releases in our body which we mistake as fear or anxiety or whatever."
So my good man,we are then afraid of our adrenalin? The physiological/chemical response is fear, but it is not fears object.Whatever that object might be,it is a mortal threat.Again in nature there is only one fear and that is the fear of death.These are the conditions under which the strategy of fight or flight became instinct.It seems obvious that the first step in the process is on a congnitive level,if you do not precieve danger,the physiology of fear will not follow.
What is it with people here not wanting to address the topic of a post directly------I don't get it! The rest of your post sounds like a wonderful self help post, but does nothing to address the topic directly.
Yes our mid-brain that deals with 'fight or flight' operates on a what would seem innate process to help enable us to respond to a 'mortal' threat. But being primitive (the mid-brain region), all threats are now seen as a mortal threat, there is no other alternative. "
I agree,it is reasonable to assume that this characteristic would be ancient.As the brain evolved from the inside out,the R complex which is said to be the reptilian aspect,controls emotions and territoriality.As there is only one fear in nature,the fear of death,the programe was necessarily limited in complexity,no need for alternatives.
"Your case in principle is correct and it is in effect true, but today, our brains have far more complex 'components' that are still attached to 'old software'."
Actually the brain has not evolved in the last twenty thousand years.Those subtle examples of precieved dangers which are not life threatening or are indeed far removed from the reality of a mortal threat are precisely my point.In so many instances in modern society fear cannot find its object and in these instances we have learned to put into a gradiant system the broad term fear,we now have worry,anxiety,stress and irrational fears or phobias, even the terms on this list have their extentions.
All I am saying is given the reality that there is only one fear in nature that being the fear of death,it should be apparent I think that a linking back is necessary to understand these instances of fear without its object or fear without an adequate object.For no matter how remote fear seems from mortal threat,its object proper.It should always be seen as related to,linked back to,indeed it is what makes it possiable for the gradiant system we have developed in the form of worry,stress,anxiety,phobia ect. Any fear which cannot identity its object will be judged irrational, I just don't think the human mind and body are that flawed.
All fear is the fear of death.I do not think it is acknowledge as such in the psychological community,though it puzzles me why it is not given greater consideration.
Hi, boagie. Actually, the fear of death is one of the fundamentally important movements within psychology--existential psychotherapy (and it's corollary existential counseling, which was waned somewhat in recent years). At root, there are:
A. The the fear of death plays a major role in our internal experience. It "haunts" us at deep levels continuously and relentlessly.
B. It begins as children and grows progressively more apparent as we age. With this, as we age, one of the fundamental developmental tasks is dealing with these fears of our finitude.
C. To cope, we build all sorts of defenses against death fear/awareness. Including denial, maladaptive syndromes, ego defenses, etc. All to ward off the fact that once I'm dead, it's just me and the dirt (not that I'd notice, of course, since I'll be dead).
D. Finally, an affective disposition toward life means dealing with this fundamental fear and dealing with it in constructive ways. Accepting my finitude and making the most of the life I have left (albeit I have no guarantees of its duration).
I could go on and on--I think existential psychotherapy is on mark. Existential psychotherapy owes a great deal to Kierkegaard, Heidegger, Camus, et al., and if you want to know more about it, Rollo May is a readable exploration of the topic.
Cheers! And here's to our impending doom!
Wouldn't you agree that the fear is the issue; and that those who are afraid of death are afraid of life, and are, primarily, Afraid. You can't say: Brave up Brother! It's a good day (to die). Unlike savages, we are used to death staying respectfully away. But if fear is ones problem, there is no common cure. Life is far more dangerous than death. What is death compared to a hangover or a boken heart?
I do not believe Passer Ourtre is still with us,. You make an excellent point Fido, one vital to living a full life. It needs to be remember to through, that fear serves us as much as it is a disserves to us. Fear keeps us from doing many foolish things, it is you might say the guardian of one's life. The answer lies somewhere in the limitation of its functionality, at what point does it become your jailer. Both philosophy and religion are said to be preparations for death, one trying to figure out how it works and what it all means, the other nihilistically devalueing its present reality for a much better imaginary life in eturnity and sky.
My point in starting this thread was to establish that all of ones fears are in an obscured way the fear of death. When one is quite a distance from the fame one can no longer feel the searing pain of the flame, but perhaps an uneasy warmth or just an awareness of the flame. I am begining to feel myself that when one becomes aware of what life is, or rather what the living of life is, then one can more easily let it go. What are your thoughts, what should we be teaching our children about how to leave a rich life in the presence of this fear of death----------keeping in mind the very young are as yet in their own psychology immortal.
Death don't take it personally!! boagie
I don't think anyone should let go of life. Every living fossil craping in a plastic bag, eating and breathing through a tube is a testament to life. Is that the fear of death? Or the love of life that makes so many claw through humiliation for it. One thing you can say about the ancient. They are not fearful of much, because fear exhausts the spirit and shuts off the lights. Fear kills people in middle age, old before their time. So I can't say all fear is the fear of death. I can say all fear is fear; and that fear is the central issue, anxiety, apprehension, and fear. Death is but a focus to the fearful. Do you fear tomorrow? Death is like tomorrow, inevitable. If you fear the inevitable your fear is inevitable because the inevitable is always before us. You fear death, you fear life, you fear everything in between, then the problem is fear. People who can't buck up some courage on reason alone don't make the impediment of spit on a side walk.
:)In nature there is only one fear, and that is the fear of death, all living things are fearful, nature has that tension in the air, red in tooth and claw, in nature, you are food. My point was, that if there is really only one fear in nature, and man compounds this into a great complexity, it is still in essence its source. It is a matter of degree, a matter of the distance from the flame, anxiety and apprehension are simpy the individual warmed to the point of discomfort by the heat of the flame. There are people born with relatively little in the way of fear, many of these people get involved in high risk jobs, but these people are not the norm. There is nothing to admire about someone doing something dangerous if there is no fear involved. The hero overrides his fear and like virtue itself, courage does not exist in the absence of choice/fear.
There is never no fear in doing a dangerous job, but the ability to put all things in perspective. If death is a constant, and fear is a constant then each can usually be disregarded while variable have our attention. Their effect is known; see, there's death, I'm shakin, now get back to work. Courage is always a moral choice, and if you don't have a spine there is nothing to stick the moral glue to. If you're scared; get out of the way, and don't pretend to be brave only to choke up the lines of communication when you decide to scatter.
:mad:Makeing personal inferances about people you are in discussion with is no alternative to the use of reason. The authority from which you speak is weak/poor, think about the topic before puffing yourself up in self admiration.:rolleyes:
I await, the second coming of the bosses son!! boagie