Do you believe in God?

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

...I agree: which is why, in the case of God, wading through arguments only goes so far. At some point, actual spiritual practice is needed.

Well, I can give it a shot if/when I'm ready to get any closer to god. But, I won't be holding my breath. I mean, I like my life. I can truly appreciate it. I don't demand any more than what I already have, to be fulfilled.

Sure, if I turn to spiritual practice and get all tingly inside, I suppose it could be cool. But, I can't say that I want it, and I won't regret my life without it. I have reached a point where I have what no one can take away. I am permanently content. And, as it turns out, I didn't need a god for that after all.

So, when we talk about the things we can learn for ourselves in this world, I've been there, done that. I consider myself a good guy. If that's not quite enough to make it to some heaven, then I could give a flying rat's ass. If it is good enough, then fantastic. Sign me up. Just don't expect me to go looking for somebody I've never met, once I'm there.

And, don't get me wrong. Thought of creating life still boggles my mind, even though it's obviously possible. If someone designed the species to which I belong, that's great. I just wish I knew how thankful I should be. I'm just not seeing it...

1 Reply

@Pusyphus,

Pusyphus wrote:

Well, I can give it a shot if/when I'm ready to get any closer to god. But, I won't be holding my breath. I mean, I like my life. I can truly appreciate it. I don't demand any more than what I already have, to be fulfilled.

God is beside the point, to an extent. Even the atheist traditions, Buddhism and Taoism, stress the importance of practice.

Pusyphus wrote:

Sure, if I turn to spiritual practice and get all tingly inside, I suppose it could be cool. But, I can't say that I want it, and I won't regret my life without it. I have reached a point where I have what no one can take away. I am permanently content. And, as it turns out, I didn't need a god for that after all.

I've said it many times on this forum: if God doesn't make sense to you, don't believe in God. Now, I doubt that you are permanently content: that nothing ever irks you and so forth, but if it is the case that you are permanently content all I can say is bless you on your path. Seems to be working just fine for you.

Pusyphus wrote:

So, when we talk about the things we can learn for ourselves in this world, I've been there, done that. I consider myself a good guy. If that's not quite enough to make it to some heaven, then I could give a flying rat's ass. If it is good enough, then fantastic. Sign me up. Just don't expect me to go looking for somebody I've never met, once I'm there.

Don't you know: the Kingdom of God is here on the earth. Heaven and Hell are metaphors for one's psychological condition. Being a good person, content, loving: that's Heaven. Being angry, hateful, spiteful: that's Hell.

Pusyphus wrote:

And, don't get me wrong. Thought of creating life still boggles my mind, even though it's obviously possible. If someone designed the species to which I belong, that's great. I just wish I knew how thankful I should be. I'm just not seeing it...

Genesis is mythology; standard creation myth. It isn't literal. No one designed the species. We evolved. A science text book can explain most of that. The myth is there to help human beings find meaning in this whole mess called existence.

0 Replies

@pokemasterat,

I don't believe in god, I have no reason to. I have seen no evidence for god's existence. Also, the way I've thought things through for myself about morals and such, require no god to explain anything. I've thought them through by myself and I can adapt if the need arises.

1 Reply

@Janus AP,

I find that the concept of spiritual pratic is as abstract as the concept of god itself, in such a manner that neither can be given levels of importance.

1 Reply

@manored,

manored wrote:

I find that the concept of spiritual pratic is as abstract as the concept of god itself, in such a manner that neither can be given levels of importance.

Most concepts have a degree of abstractness to them. But actual practice, spiritual practice, is not abstract like the concept of God, which is abstract. Practice is something that you do. Whether it is saying your Hail Mary's and counting rosary beads or whatever else, it's a practice.

1 Reply

@Pythagorean,

Would you care to share with us what you derive from your spiritual practice?

0 Replies

@manored,

manored wrote:

"God might be pretty much anything imaginable and therefore even thinking about him is a waste of time" is a position

By the time we get to the point where we can exterminate all viruses on earth it will be a lot easier to modify ourselves to be virus-proof instead

A lot of "might be" uncertainty there.

Maybe this will help:
God is Everything;
A Universal Truth

=
MJA

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

Most concepts have a degree of abstractness to them. But actual practice, spiritual practice, is not abstract like the concept of God, which is abstract. Practice is something that you do. Whether it is saying your Hail Mary's and counting rosary beads or whatever else, it's a practice.

What I wanted to mean, but failed utterly to, is that spiritual practice, just like belief in god, is something that develops and occurs naturally and therefore its not necessary to worry about it.

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@Pythagorean,

you create god with your own thoughts and also he is the one who brings thoughts in your mind. do you exist? as long as you exist, god does too.

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@MJA,

MJA wrote:

A lot of "might be" uncertainty there.

Maybe this will help:
God is Everything;
A Universal Truth

=
MJA

Everthing is Nothing
Nothing is meaningless

grasshopper wrote:

you create god with your own thoughts and also he is the one who brings thoughts in your mind. do you exist? as long as you exist, god does too.

What is the point of picturing a being that cannot be distinguished from the picturer? Its the same than giving the same person two valid names.

4 Replies

@manored,

Pusyphus wrote:

Would you care to share with us what you derive from your spiritual practice?

I think it was another thread, but I readily admit that my practice is pathetic. One, I rarely devote myself to actual practice, typically half-hearted reading is all I manage to do. And two, my life I so filled with counter-productive activities that serious practice is nearly impossible for me.

However, even in spite of all that, what little practice I do have, mostly just helps me be a calmer, kinder person and more considerate person. Sometimes people think that the spiritual life is supernatural, full of ghosts and ghoulies; no. The spiritual life is about being a good person. Even if you do not think of it in terms of spirituality, when you work on being a more compassionate and humane person, you are working on your spiritual life.

manored wrote:

What I wanted to mean, but failed utterly to, is that spiritual practice, just like belief in god, is something that develops and occurs naturally and therefore its not necessary to worry about it.

I can agree to an extent. Buddhists say that you meet your teacher when it is time for you to meet your teacher, not before or after the fact. But there is something to be said for study: it is often times the study of spiritual practices or of God that draw us into being increasingly interested in the matter which ends up leading to beginning a serious practice. So, yes, it develops and occurs naturally, and I most certainly suggest you not worry about it, but I would suggest developing at least a scholarly interest.

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@Pythagorean,

But to develop a scholarly interest on purpose is worring about it Smile

That, too, will come and grow with time. If it does not, its probally because the person has not yet came across the field of knowledge that matches its own inner one, maybe because it doesnt yet exists.

0 Replies

@manored,

manored wrote:

Everthing is Nothing
Nothing is meaningless
quote]

I'm sorry but I cannot make any sense of your response at all.

So if everything is nothing and nothing is meaningless as you say above,
then everything including you and me and this thread is meaningless as well?
Is that what you mean, or are your thoughts meaningless and nothing too?

=
MJA

2 Replies

@MJA,

manored wrote:

But to develop a scholarly interest on purpose is worring about it

It can be worrying, or it could be simple curiosity about the way in which human beings understand and experience reality. That's how I became involved in the whole thing: I was an atheist interested in the way religious people thought.

manored wrote:

That, too, will come and grow with time. If it does not, its probally because the person has not yet came across the field of knowledge that matches its own inner one, maybe because it doesnt yet exists.

Well, I can't argue with that Smile

I'm not sure "field" of knowledge is the right word, but I think I know what you mean. Everyone is different; for some, one tradition makes sense, for others it's another faith tradition. For still some others, it is no faith tradition. We are all, after all, unique. Our paths are equally unique.

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@manored,

manored wrote:

Everthing is Nothing
Nothing is meaningless

What is the point of picturing a being that cannot be distinguished from the picturer? Its the same than giving the same person two valid names.

it is not that simple, i think. My problem is about seperating myself and realizing that i am an individual. Not that i and him(gOd)- we are both same things.

1 Reply

@grasshopper,

grasshopper wrote:

it is not that simple, i think. My problem is about seperating myself and realizing that i am an individual. Not that i and him(gOd)- we are both same things.

Your finger and your heart are quite different, yet they truly are you.
You and the Moon are different too, yet both make up the body of the Universe, or in other names, everything or God.
God is Universal is everything is you.
Uni mean One.

=
MJA

0 Replies

@Pythagorean,

so it is god who is now confused about himself? not me?

0 Replies

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

I'm sorry but I cannot make any sense of your response at all.

So if everything is nothing and nothing is meaningless as you say above,
then everything including you and me and this thread is meaningless as well?
Is that what you mean, or are your thoughts meaningless and nothing too?

=
MJA

No, only the whole, that is, everthing, is meaningless. Any particular piece of it that one may perceive that is not the whole is meaningfull.

grasshopper wrote:

it is not that simple, i think. My problem is about seperating myself and realizing that i am an individual. Not that i and him(gOd)- we are both same things.

Hum, what do you mean? If you know the problem, and the solution, how come its not solved yet? Smile

1 Reply

@manored,

manored wrote:

No, only the whole, that is, everthing, is meaningless. Any particular piece of it that one may perceive that is not the whole is meaningfull.

Hum, what do you mean? If you know the problem, and the solution, how come its not solved yet?

well, i think this 'being god' thing makes me a bit nervous because now i can no longer blame anotherthing (god) but now i'm responsible of everything Razz

1 Reply

@manored,

Here is another way to discuss a belief in God.

We all wonder, at some time or another, if we have a purpose in life - why am I here? I'm not talking about what I want to do in this life, like being a teacher or lawyer, but what is life all about. Many people blindly accept the answers from organized religions - God created us and we are indebted to him, and our purpose is to please him through prayer and going to church. Religions have become an engrained part of society over the last couple of thousand years and therefore respected as an institution of authority. Instead of having to do research to discover why we are here, it is much easier to give our responsibility to a religion and accept their dogma.
But, do religions know why we are here? Do they know our purpose? Do religions have the 'right' answers? When I decided to take back my responsibility and do some research into my purpose in life, I realized I was being controlled by my religion with the hundreds of do's and don'ts they proclaimed. What happened to the concept of 'free will'? It was then I recognized responsibility and free will went hand in hand. To have free choice I must be completely responsible for everything happening to me. That means there cannot be any controlling god, out there, punishing me or handing me favors. If I am financially successful it is my own doing. If I break my arm, I'm accountable. If some god is responsible then I don't have free will.
Now, if I'm completely responsible for everything that happens to me, then there are no accidents, and therefore no blame. If there is no blame, then there is no reason for revenge. Forgiveness would be easy. If there is free will and no controlling god, then prayer is futile, worshipping is pointless. There would be no reason to have any fear of punishment, or Hell.
I started to compare this new revelation, pertaining to my purpose in life, to the traditional one I had been taught by society. Though I was taught that God was love, he apparently also controlled me by fear, suggesting that if I didn't follow the rules he would punish me by sending me to a place called Hell. He demanded I worship him and beg him for favors, through prayer. I didn't think a loving God would make those rules. I was taught that I was born a sinner, and the only way I could become saved from my fiery fate was to accept Jesus as my savior. I needed to go to church, pray and pay (tithe), and go around telling other people they must do the same thing. Living in fear of Hell didn't make me feel very good. Attending church on Sundays didn't make me feel saved.
As I moved beyond the propaganda of the church I began to realize I had been drawn into a huge societal lie. The more I started to read and research alternative ideas, the more I wanted to make my life real.
I discovered my purpose in life was connected to the rational concept of reincarnation. I was not a person with a Soul; I am Soul, living in a physical body, experiencing different life times in order to learn - to reach my maximum potential.
I began to realize the futility of two big conflicting myths presented by our culture. I'm not simply a biological being reacting to stimuli, nor am I placed on Earth by God to serve and worship him. Instead, I'm a part of a universal Spirit, as we all are. Collectively we are co-creators of the universe; individually we create our own reality by 'intent'.
Majic

2 Replies

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