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Defining the self

 
 
Refus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 01:06 pm
@Refus,
Refus wrote:
Math Is Fun Forum / The self defined as a property of existing stuff.

In this thread i discuss the definition of the self, D, as something that oftenly or atleast sometimes remains over time, ie:

D(p1,x1,t1,q1,m1,Im1)) ~ D(p2,x2,t2,q2,m2,Im2)

If the matrix D, varies over time, then the self is a matrix that can vary atleast slightly without dissapearing.

Here is the problem. Imagine that your boat is repaired over and over again until it has none of the original pieces left. It seems that the old boat is not the new boat, that looks exactly the same. Now imagine that you had a boat but it broke so you bought a new one. Surely, in none of the cases the first boat is the second boat. Unless the identity of m1 has a part in m2, in for instance the first example. In the first example it is given that none of the original parts remains, but they have been exchanged in a small rate, just like braincells. Given that the exchange where made while identity in some degree was preserved through force, this entail that the force is proportional to the identity. Given that we are just as sharp over time and have the same amount of identity, we get that the identity is the force that a particle is effected of. The identity is a matrix factor to the matrix D. Let me put it like this p1 !== p2, x1 !== x2, t1 !== t2, q1!==q2, m1!==m2, Im1=Im2
Where Im is identity of mass
In other words anyone (any self) D(variables) with the identity from m1, ie. has been effected by F1 has a part self F1(s) that has the procentual part of the other self as 100*F1(s)/Fs(s).

And everything else that can be derived from this.


Now you've seen it in context. I hope it makes perfect sense.
I hope it is clear that the identity can only depend on that which remains more or less constant over time. Momentum and position are not valid in this case, cause then you would've been way gone from your body.
0 Replies
 
boagie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Feb, 2007 06:32 am
@Aristoddler,
Hi Y'all,

Certainly there is no life after death if you're belief is of the popular nature that identity is a tangible thing.Is there life after death of course,life goes on,do you as a particular identity go on,no.You never really were, just a coming to be and a passing away. Life is the utmost expression of process.Death a dispersed cloud,what was that clouds potential,but to almost be then be dispersed.The self a cluster of thoughts a cloud,in a windy world.

It is a dreamy moving not quite thing,only the illusion is the grasp of the ring.
Electra phil
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Feb, 2007 08:27 pm
@boagie,
boagie wrote:
Hi Y'all,

Certainly there is no life after death if you're belief is of the popular nature that identity is a tangible thing.Is there life after death of course,life goes on,do you as a particular identity go on,no.You never really were, just a coming to be and a passing away. Life is the utmost expression of process.Death a dispersed cloud,what was that clouds potential,but to almost be then be dispersed.The self a cluster of thoughts a cloud,in a windy world.

It is a dreamy moving not quite thing,only the illusion is the grasp of the ring.


http://x76.xanga.com/258d655472d37106965996/z75739916.jpg

Owl Dream


~XO
Refus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Feb, 2007 01:26 am
@Refus,
Are you some sort of wizard, electra or what?

Have you heard about the wizard who turned himself into a glass of sap?
Electra phil
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Feb, 2007 03:39 am
@Refus,
Refus wrote:
Are you some sort of wizard, electra or what?

Have you heard about the wizard who turned himself into a glass of sap?


Dear Refus

In my experience, we are all great dreamers inside a dream.

We are the dream, better said.

This owl appeared and brought me the dreaming. It is a wild owl vodou dream, where the individual is rather hazily defined.

I have not heard this story you mention. I am sure it is a good one.
0 Replies
 
Refus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Feb, 2007 05:15 am
@Refus,
It is a song, kind of childish actually. Point is, he was fooled to show his power by turning into a glass of sap, and then when he had a hard time turning back, he drank himself. In other words, he sucame to his own feelings. It is not easy to live with that power.
Electra phil
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Feb, 2007 05:41 am
@Refus,
Refus wrote:
It is a song, kind of childish actually. Point is, he was fooled to show his power by turning into a glass of sap, and then when he had a hard time turning back, he drank himself. In other words, he sucame to his own feelings. It is not easy to live with that power.


Well these things only happen when one supposes that I I I AM powerful. The truth is there is not an I, that is just a story we tell ourselves. So the mystery life swallows you whole to break the spell.
0 Replies
 
Refus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Feb, 2007 07:15 am
@Refus,
Then there is not something to fight for.
0 Replies
 
boagie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Feb, 2007 08:29 am
@Electra phil,
Electra wrote:
http://x76.xanga.com/258d655472d37106965996/z75739916.jpg

Owl Dream


~XO


Electra,

Interesting, images of owls seem to follow me about.Indeed I had a dream once where it was pitch black,suddenly a lightening strike lights up the sky to reveal an owl in flight.Its wings had colourful patterns which changed with the movement of its wings.I tried to understand a meaning from it after the fact but could not.For weeks,perhaps months I was delighted each time I remembered the dream but still,as delightful as it was,there appeared to be no meaning,why did I then find it so delightful? With this owl,its colours on the wings were patterns of yellow,blue,green,red ect I came to call it,Painted Owl.That was sometime ago and never did I assign a meaning to it.It does sound however as though we have both been visited by something of the same nature,perhaps it did leave something tangiable behind after all.Thanks again Electra!!

It is a dreamy moving not quite thing,only the illusion is the grasp of the ring.
0 Replies
 
Refus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Feb, 2007 09:25 am
@Refus,
I've also had the owl dream recently. They left letters and they were white. The letters had a red stamp on them, not to mention.

Also, i recently watched starwars.
Electra phil
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Feb, 2007 03:12 pm
@Refus,
Welcome to the United States of Consciousness. ; )

Soul infused personality is a process of pulling forth various capacities, which seem like higher truths. In indigenous cultures it is in dreamtime we go and "bring back" these things that are "good for the people".

There is a certain dreaming that modern man has forgotten about and somehow it is now my memory. Where did this knowledge come from? Was it from the appearance of the owl...something outside of me that triggers symbolic meaning and senses of abstractions throughout time.

Did I ACTUALLY "pull down" my soul into me, or is this the power of the mind. What is "medicine". This owl gave me medicine.

States of consciousness in indigenous dreaming means shapeshifting. It would be difficult to say what is consciousness, or if it is ultimately relevant to this discussion?

Does the stone have a dream inside it to share with you? Any tribal person might say yes. A modern person would look at you as if you were insane to propose such an idea.

I have merged identity with this owl and she brought my soul to me. In that place I entered the dreaming. That is all I know.
TheHermit
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Feb, 2007 09:31 pm
@Electra phil,
This is what a Mystic would say about the Self.

Do not think of "your" self as the body. The body does not come in until number 10. The 10 are from the Tree of Life.

  • This is the Truth About the Self:
  • 0. All the power that ever was or will be is here now.
  • 1. I am a center of expression for the Primal Will-to-Good which eternally creates and sustains the universe.
  • 2. Through me its unfailing Wisdom takes form in thought and word.
  • 3. Filled with Understanding of its perfect law, I am guided, moment by moment, along the path of liberation.
  • 4. From the exhaustless riches of its Limitless Substance. I draw all things needful, both spiritual and material.
  • 5. I recognize the manifestation of the undeviating Justice in all the circumstances of my life.
  • 6. In all things great and small, I see the Beauty of the divine expression.
  • 7. Living from that Will, supported by its unfailing Wisdom and Understanding, mine is the Victorious Life.
  • 8. I look forward with confidence to the perfect realization of the Eternal Splendor of the Limitless Light.
  • 9. In though and word and deed, I rest my life, from day to day, upon the sure Foundation of Eternal Being.
  • 10.The Kingdom of Spirit is embodied in my flesh.
TheHermit
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Feb, 2007 11:00 pm
@TheHermit,
Mystics say: The universe is mental.

Walter Russell said: The Mind of God and the mind of Man are One.

Is the self and the personality the same? What is the identity? What is the body? Do "I" change my self when my body cells regenerate normally?
:eek:
Good questions! Smile

The Qabalah says on the Tree of Life (10 spheres), the first set of three spheres are the level of God's consciousness, the second set of three are the level of the Son of God (Christ Consciousness), the next set of three are the personal triad (self, vital soul), the last sphere is the universe of form (Malkuth). Remember all is one stream of consciousness.

The Sun or Son of God (Super Ego in Tiphareth) generates many egos or personal selves (yods in Tarot key 19). A personal self incarnates in many personalities and bodies (in Malkuth).

So IMHO, the self is not the personality and definitely not the body. The personality is not the body. In fact every cell in the body has its own personality. Have you ever directed your finger on how to heal your cut? Scientists have discovered that the cell has everything the person has, body, senses, digestion, consciousness, etc. They are also beginning to discover that life and/or the directing consciousness is not in the cell or any part of the body but rather it receives "direction" from "outside". It seems to be receiving a frequency to which the whole body/cells is/are tuned to! A frequency that is unique to it (Self?).

If by identity you mean your name consciousness then that is personality but identity could mean God. Personalities are like masks which the self uses to perfect itself.

Does my self consciousness change when I grow wiser? No, I merely have more experience/knowledge to work with. Does my self change when I regenerate body cells? No, I just add another cell/personality to continue my body/vehicle form. Does my Saturn Vue change to a Honda when I add Honda parts? How does my personality change when I buy a Volkswagen?

Perhaps you can now see why Man is called the Microcosm. You might say that his body is like a universe unto itself! In fact as "we" grow in consciousness we get the responsibility of handling larger and larger parts of the Cosmos to control! More of the subconscious stuff to elevate to a higher level. "As I raise myself to cosmic consciousness, I will draw you with me." Yes, our body cells are also raised when we achieve Cosmic Consciousness. Perhaps one day we will raise ourselves to Cosmic consciousness and have a Solar System for a body as does the being that composes our solar system of which we are his cells!

Your Frater JA
The Hermit
0 Replies
 
Refus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Feb, 2007 04:57 am
@Refus,
Actually, even if the self change in the body with regeneration of bodycells, it is not half bad being a poop, it is worse to be a photon.

Pardon my language there, if you think it is too vulgar, you may edit.
0 Replies
 
 

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