5
   

Americans can now be locked away on the basis of fear

 
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Tue 18 May, 2010 03:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
Do you agree that the state has an interest in civilly committing people with psychological problems who pose a danger to the public?
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Tue 18 May, 2010 03:09 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
However, the SCOTUS as just OK'ed keeping them in the prison system, which is much cheaper, and is totally wrong.

That is manifestly incorrect.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Tue 18 May, 2010 03:59 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

Very sad indeed.

Why don't they allow indefinite detentions of captured Islamic extremists and radical jihadists?


They do.


Obama allows captured Islamic extremists and radical jihadists to be treated in this manner?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 18 May, 2010 05:43 pm
Quote:

The Obama administration wants to hold terrorists. Did SCOTUS just give them a green light?


By Dahlia Lithwick
Posted Tuesday, May 18, 2010, at 6:29 PM ET

Once, when it was fashionable to worry about Congress or the president asserting limitless authority to detain people, we would have been nervous about a Supreme Court decision expanding the authority to do so. But by now we have mainly slept our way though the Obama administration's talk of indefinite detention for Guantanamo detainees, generalized wobbliness on civilian trials for terrorists, embrace of the state secrets doctrine, and recent discussions about "modernizing" the Miranda warning, as well as a host of other Bush-lite war-on-terror powers. Is it possible that most of us haven't noticed that the Supreme Court has just handed Congress broad authority to detain people merely because they show signs of future dangerousness?


I am talking about the 7-2 decision in Monday's United States v. Comstock, a case that asked whether the federal government has the authority to continue to indefinitely detain a person who has served out his federal prison sentence, or who is deemed incompetent to stand trial, if the government has clear and convincing evidence that he is a "sexually dangerous" person. The high court had already granted state governments this power. But precisely because this is the traditional realm of the states, the 4th Circuit struck down the civil confinement federal statute, finding that it "granted the federal government unprecedented authority over civil commitment"an area long controlled by the states."
http://www.slate.com/id/2254223/
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Tue 18 May, 2010 06:09 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

These people are deemed to be a danger to the public. That's why they're held in secure mental health facilities.

But often the judgment that they are a danger to the public is completely politically motivated. Several years ago, California passed a law saying that the governor must approve all paroles for those who received "life with the possibility of parole" just as a final check. The parole board was already very conservative about who they allowed to receive parole, so the idea was that the governor would just do a double check to be sure. The result was that even perfect model prisoners never got parole. There is no political risk for politicians in keeping inmates in jail and some risk in letting them go, so no one goes free. (A court overturned this policy a couple of years ago saying that "life with the possibility of parole" means there is a possibility of parole, but the governor's office is still fighting it.) Don't think doctors will bow to the same pressure to diagnose someone in a way favorable to those in power? US Military doctors are doing it in Iraq and Afghanistan to avoid paying benefits to soldiers. There is no way you can guarantee that someone who is currently in jail and has no access to independent evaluation can fight against a trumped up medical diagnosis. That is not to say that some of these people are not indeed incorrigible, but I'm certain these laws will be abused by politicians who face electorate uproars when released offenders strike again. Are we willing to sacrifice the rights of every prisoner who has served his time to ensure that a few will not strike again? Why do we limit this to sex offenders? Why not murderers? They've certainly been known to strike again. Why not drunk drivers since they are also habitual offenders driving metal bullets on our roads? If you support civil rights, can you really just support them for people you like?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 18 May, 2010 06:16 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
Why do we limit this to sex offenders? Why not murderers? They've certainly been known to strike again. Why not drunk drivers since they are also habitual offenders driving metal bullets on our roads? If you support civil rights, can you really just support them for people you like?
Gang member is still the better example because we know without a doubt that if the guy does not leave the gang that he will continue to be a menace to society. The way is now clear to lock away gang members for life or until they convincingly renounce the gang. Oh wait, they tend to be minorities and we like them.....never mind.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Tue 18 May, 2010 09:16 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

the Forensic unit in Colorado is located on the grounds of the State Hospital nowhere near a prison. It is a totally locked facility as is warranted by the nature of it's population. It is administered by the State Dept of Hospitals and Mental Health, not by the state Depart of Prisons.

Sure, but that's not the facility that Hawkeye is complaining about.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Tue 18 May, 2010 10:14 pm
@engineer,
That's an argument that the law is flawed, not that the law is unconstitutional.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 18 May, 2010 10:30 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
That's an argument that the law is flawed, not that the law is unconstitutional.
it will be interesting to see what the people make of the SCOTUS saying that Congress can do what ever they want, in the Constitution or not. I predict that this will end up being a lot more evidence to the argument that we need to take a hatchet to the Federal Government, that those bastards in Washington have gotten too big for their britches.

0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Wed 19 May, 2010 05:06 am
@joefromchicago,
True. The law is constitutional because the Supreme Court has declared it so. It will be abused because all the political rewards accrue to those who abuse it and there is no reward for standing for sex offenders. Whenever we allow someone's rights to be abused, we all lose. We loose more in this case because we are the ones demanding to give rights away.
0 Replies
 
 

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