"Cashing In"

@CalamityJane,

Quote:

HE is the beneficiary of that policy

Perhaps you are right that why there are lawyers however I do not think it that simple for a numbers of reasons in this case.

Now beside the legal issues please please explain why he have a moral right to benefit from the cash value build up not by his mother but by his sister payments after his mother death?

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@CalamityJane,

Remember I said my sister called me practically everyday, a month following our mother's death, pestering me to sign a form giving her authority over the policy. I never did, but as it turns out, I had the option of either resuming the premium payments myself, or cashing the thing out. Why? Because I was a full fledge adult capable of making adult descisions about the life insurance policy mom had maintained. My sweet, dear, innocent... sister neglected to tell me at the time, that cashing the policy out was even an option. She only revealed that a descision needed to be made quickly about continuing the premium payments.

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@BillRM,

Yes, you're right Bill.

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@rcooper6,

It's probably easy for the community of this forum to determine that this is a matter that is weighing very heavily on my mind. I just never thought that my sister would allow the value of the dollar bill to be so wholly important to her, than me.

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@rcooper6,

Quote:

My sweet, dear, innocent... sister neglected to tell me at the time, that cashing the policy out was even an option. She only revealed that a descision needed to be made quickly about continuing the premium payments.

It seem like a real mess indeed and I am wondering if your sister perhaps had cash it out herself perhaps shortly after your mother death.

It does not make a great deal of sense for her to had carry those policies payments for her adult brothers benefits over more then a decade.

You are right to look into the matter in any case I just hope you will not find anything that will tend to destroy family relationships.

Do you by the way even know the name of the insurance company?

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@BillRM,

No, I don't know the name. When I pressed her for the name she clamed up and pointed me in the direction to the front door. I blame myself for not knowing more about the insurance policy. This is information I should have been aware of long before our mother passed.

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Quote:

sister called me practically everyday, a month following our mother's death, pestering me to sign a form giving her authority over the policy.

suggest to your sister that you will consider signing this form now.
The form will need to have the policy number insurance company and the details you need to find out what you need to know.

The policy may have been set up so that premiums need to be paid for a certain length of time (say 20 years) before a cash benefit is payable.
Your sister may well have done you and your brothers a big favour. Had she not continued with the premium payments the policy may well have lapsed and all your mothers hard work would have been lost.
the above is just conjecture on my part but designed to get you to consider that there may be other motives rather than greed to your sisters actions.

If your mother died intestate (without a will) how were the assets of her estate divided? House, furniture, car, other goods?

Is the deceased estate still functioning in some manner managed by your sister?
The policy, if it had a cash value at the time of your mothers death, would form part of your mothers estate.

As gently as possible i must say that I see you excercising as much greed as your sister now that you are aware the policy may have some kind of value to you.

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@rcooper6,

Lord that does not look good I would suggest getting on the phone and calling your other brothers and other family members and seeing if one of them can give you the name of your mother insurance company.

Hmm, did you not said she send you papers to sign over this matter that would give you the information you would need and if you did not save a copy perhaps one of your brothers did.

There also might be a state data base of who the insurance companies had insurance in your mother state but I would not bet on it.

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@dadpad,

Quote:

As gently as possible i must say that I see you excercising as much greed as your sister now that you are aware the policy may have some kind of value to you.

That was my first reaction but from his following postings I had change my mind and he surely does have a right to know what the hell is going on.

Hell I question if he even know the maximum likely worth of those policies and that make it hard to judge how must efforts and money to spend finding out what is going on make sense.

Then you have family relationships to take into account as for example a threatening letter from a lawyer demanding information on the policy is cheap as far as money is concern but not as far as having some family remaining afterward.

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Quote:

and he surely does have a right to know what the hell is going on.

I'm not so sure he does. I think it will depend on who is the benificiary named in the policy. If no specific mention is made otherwise that would be the mother or the mothers estate.
Lets pretend the policy is a chair, the chair forms part of the deceased estate. Whoever recieved the chair as a part of their portion of the deceased estate is now responible for the upkeep and maintenance of that chair. If subsequently 11 years later that chair turns out to be an antique the chair still belongs to the original recipient and they have the right to recieve the value of said chair today.

I'm unsure if 11 years later a challenge to the distribution of the assets of the estate could be made however i think not. That might depend on whether the policy was originally declared as part of the estate. Full disclosure may impact. ie rc was not made aware of the value of the asset.

So... i am assuming the policy has passed to the sister as part of her portion of the estate. Sister has taken the responsibility for the upkeep and maintenance of the policy and unless otherwise noted within the policy document will be the beneficiary.

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@dadpad,

You say that your mom took this life insurance policy out on you and your two brothers - was your sister not also one of the insured? If not, do you know why not?
Is your sister married? Could it be possible that your mother named your sister as a co-beneficiary in an effort to help her be financially cared for after your mom's death?
The reason I ask is because if your sister is not married, she may not be the beneficiary of any life insurance policy other than this one, and maybe your mother looked at this policy as a way to help insure your sister's financial security and solvency as she ages.
You say that you have your own life insurance, and you've probably named someone other than your sister as the beneficiary - same with your other brothers. Maybe this was an effort on your mom's part to take care of your sister. Do you see what I mean?

For example, I have four nondisabled and married siblings and had one learning disabled, never-married sibling (he died). But if he'd lived until both of my parents had died, I know that my parents had made that brother the sole beneficiary of several insurance policies aside and apart from the rest of their estate- in an effort to make sure he was cared for into his old age, if it had turned out that was needed. We all had the ability to work and care for ourselves, as well as spouses who had named us as beneficiaries - whereas he didn't- so he needed to be specially looked after and cared for financially in the event of their deaths.
Could your mom have set something like that up for your sister?

If that isn't the case - it does seem a little weird for a sister to have life insurance policies on her brothers- yeah- I can't picture my brother having a life insurance policy on me- so I get what you're saying.

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@rcooper6,

Find a lawyer with a good knowledge of insurance law.
Maybe your local bar association will direct u to one.

U may well need to sue for an accounting
(presumably brought on by an order to show cause, to speed things up)
since u don 't even know the name of the insurance carrier,
let alone the policy number.

It will be important that the policy does not lapse in the meantime.

David

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@dadpad,

Yes however if the woman for example convert that policy to herself by forging his name on it then we have a problem indeed Dadpad!

In any case he should have some form of an accounting even 12 years later concerning this policy.

If she had done nothing wrong it seem very strange that she would not talk to him about it.

No one however is defensing waiting 11 years to deal with the matter.

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@dadpad,

dadpd, it isn't greed that motivated me to suggest to my sister the idea of cashing the policy out. I merely, at the time, wanted to reveal to her the fact that I have enough life insurance without her continuing to pay the premiums on the that one. She's always complaining about being financially straped... well, my idea would have reduced the expenditures she rountinely confronts. Moreover, the cash value of the policy would never exceed the face value (the actual pay-out) any way. Now, since she has demonstrated to me that she is vehemently interested in the someday pay-out, I will not rest until I know she is nolonger my beneficiary. Someway, somehow, she must be prevented from ever collecting a cent. I plan to exaust every possible legal means at my disposal. This now takes center stage, priority number one!

I will not give my sister the satisfaction of thinking that I'll just discount this matter. At the outset, shortly following my mother's passing, I was too distraught to even ponder her continuous requests for me to sign over to her the oversight of the policy. That is the main reason I didn't initially...that is...until I began to think there maybe something of a clandestine nature going on.

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@rcooper6,

rcooper6 wrote:

I will not rest until I know she is nolonger my beneficiary.

since you haven't put a dime into the policy, she isn't going to be YOUR beneficiary.

Why do you think you have any right to the policy, its proceeds, or how the proceeds are managed?

You made a mistake by not looking into things when you should have, and when it wouldn't have cost you anything to do so.

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@rcooper6,

Aidan you asked: "You say that your mom took this life insurance policy out on you and your two brothers - was your sister not also one of the insured"? I have absolutely NO idea. I know that sounds strange...I should know, I...I know, but I don't. Our mother handled certain aspects of our lives when we were younger and as we grew, we never questioned or injected ourselves into her decision making, at least I didn't. Also, I haven't mentioned this (sorry)... but our father is very much alive and was married to our mother (living in the household) at the time of her death. Now, the personal possessions someone spoke of, Dad retained those, the tangible things. And it was not due to the directives of a Will, remember, my mother left no such thing. He retained possession because he was her husband. That simple.

1 Reply

@rcooper6,

ehBeth, wrote: Why do you think you have any right to the policy, its proceeds, or how the proceeds are managed?

You made a mistake by not looking into things when you should have, and when it wouldn't have cost you anything to do so.

ehBeth, Why does she think she has that right to the proceeds or the policy? WHO MADE HER GUARDIAN OVER IT! This is the question whose answer has yet to surface, surely you get that? Yes, I made a mistake in not insisting years ago to access to the policy. But I did eleven years ago suggested to her about just cashing the thing out. Now in hindsight, I was much too timid and impotent in my asking this of her then. Even then, she resisted saying "the best thing is to keep the insurance because that's what mom would've wanted". She was weaving a clever web then, I just couldn't connect the dots. My sister is a very selfish, opportunistic character.

1 Reply

@rcooper6,

UPDATE: As promised, I said I'd notify this community regarding the outcome of my investigation into the matter. I phoned the insuance company that once sponsored the policy. I found out that the branch in our hometown was disbanded and merged with their headquarters elsewhere. Moreover, the representative I spoke with at their headquarters, after hearing my circumstance, could not find any information in her data sources reflecting myself, my sister, my beloved mother, or even, the policy itself. As it turns out, the insurance company that once sponsored the policy, not only packed up and moved away, but according to my father, who is just as much in the dark about this issue as I am, said he belived the policy is now in the control of a new insurance company, under a new name entirely. My sister, will not divulge the name of the new company. She clammed up completely, about the insurance company and the policy when I informed her of my plans to seek out an attorney to force her hand.

That would explain the inexplicable void of information at the former insurance company's central command. This is getting drastically more complicated as I continue to dig. As the phrase goes..."the plot thickens". Let me add, the representative did say, based on the information I gave her that...it appears my sister did nothing "legally wrong". That at the time of our mother's passing,...yeah, I could have voluntarily continued paying the premiums of the policy in question, or just cashed it in. She also added, that my sister did not need my "consent" to assume possession of the policy. So one would think, based on the represenative's statement, that she (my sister) did nothing CRIMINALLY wrong, just morally. Well,.. I don't buy it! Nor did the attorney I spoke to regarding this whole mess. He referred me to another attorney's firm, whom he stated would be more aptly qualified to elucidating this issue for me. I now await his call.

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@rcooper6,

unless the insurance policy was/is for a substantial amount ( do you know how much ? ) AND is still IN FORCE , hiring an attorney will likely cost you more than the policy is worth .

you should be able to trace the policy even if it was taken over by another company .

after all these years you may have to spend considerable time and money upfront ( ! ) to trace it - is that really worth it ?

assuming that YOU were one of the beneficiaries under the policy , your sister would likely not be able ever cash in the policy ( she would have to satisfy the insurance company that SHE is the beneficiary ; which , you say , she is not . paying a premium does NOT give beneficiary rights !
actually you cannot be the beneficiary of a life insurance policy for which you pay the premium . remember : it was your mother who took out the insurance policy . )

... ... before spending money for an attorney , better find out if the policy still exists - don't throw good money after bad money .

1 Reply

@hamburgboy,

for information on life insurance see :

http://www.lifeinsurancerates.com/beneficiary.html

Quote:

Beneficiary

The whole reason you get life insurance is so that those who depend on you financially will have protection after you have passed away.

Hopefully by now you realize life insurance is not for you ( but for the beneficiary . hbg )

Life insurance is a very organized process.

The insurance company wants to make sure that your money gets to the right party.

The person, or persons, who will receive your life insurance settlement is known as a beneficiary. You might not be too familiar with how a beneficiary works. Do not worry because we have some of the information that you need to know! Take your time and make sure the beneficiary you name is the one you want in charge.

Let’s Define Beneficiary

The beneficiary you name in your life insurance policy is the one who receives all of the death benefit. The beneficiary can be one person, or it can be two or more people. It is always encouraged that you name a beneficiary, but it is not something that you must do. The money will be paid out to your estate in the event you do not name a beneficiary. It is alright to name more than one person your beneficiary, just make sure you work out all the important percentages. You have plenty of options when choosing your beneficiary, and you also have the option of noting how much of your estate they will get. You can plan ahead as much as you would like in regards to this.

Primary vs. Contingent Beneficiaries

When you are setting up your life insurance beneficiary, you will have the options of giving two names. The first name will be the main beneficiary, also known as the primary beneficiary. They will be the first in line to receive your death benefit when you have died. The second name will be the contingent beneficiary. They will receive your death benefit if the primary beneficiary is not around. If both of these parties are missing, the money will then be paid out to your estate. It needs to be clearly defined as to who your primary beneficiary is, and who your contingent beneficiary is. Remember, you do not have to put two names down, it is just an option.

1 Reply

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