Is Greece going to set off the long feared next wave of the Great Recession?

Listening to news summary and debate from Europe right now. Not a lot of support for further funds going to Greek.

Lots of discussion of how Kohl forced Germany into the Euro against the wishes of most Germans. He felt Germany owed it to Europe to aid in regaining postwar stability. Interesting debate.

I think we should take another look at what happened to Germany post WW1 when unfair and impossible to meet terms were imposed upon them with little/no choice. With so much of this handling of Greece it seems like the Germans have turned off their brains

Listening to news summary and debate from Europe right now. Not a lot of support for further funds going to Greek.

Lots of discussion of how Kohl forced Germany into the Euro against the wishes of most Germans. He felt Germany owed it to Europe to aid in regaining postwar stability. Interesting debate.

Listening to news summary and debate from Europe right now. Not a lot of support for further funds going to Greek.

Lots of discussion of how Kohl forced Germany into the Euro against the wishes of most Germans. He felt Germany owed it to Europe to aid in regaining postwar stability. Interesting debate.

Lending money alone has not been fruitful to Greece as corruption at government levels is far greater than we anticipated, what's needed is a sort of Marshall Plan to encourage investments in Greece, promote industry and stabilize the work force. That's where the EU should put emphasis in, helping Greece to gain economic freedom and stabilize its economy.

Ritschl: That may be, but during the 20th century, Germany was responsible for what were the biggest national bankruptcies in recent history. It is only thanks to the United States, which sacrificed vast amounts of money after both World War I and World War II, that Germany is financially stable today and holds the status of Europe's headmaster. That fact, unfortunately, often seems to be forgotten.

ehBeth wrote:

Listening to news summary and debate from Europe right now. Not a lot of support for further funds going to Greek.

Lots of discussion of how Kohl forced Germany into the Euro against the wishes of most Germans. He felt Germany owed it to Europe to aid in regaining postwar stability. Interesting debate.

It is interesting, yet there is no way of changing history.

BRUSSELS (AP) -- Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras strode into a summit of eurozone leaders with a beaming smile Tuesday, but was met with anger when it became clear he had no written proposal on how to save his country from financial ruin.

With Greece's banks just days away from a potential collapse that could drag the country out of the euro, Tsipras had been expected to offer up economic reforms in exchange for loans. Instead, his government said it would only present a plan on Wednesday.

"You know, there was a promise for today. Then, they're promising for tomorrow," said Lithuanian President Dalia Grybauskaite. "For the Greek government it's every time 'manana.'"

Tsipras came buoyed by a triumph in Sunday's referendum, where an overwhelming majority of Greeks backed his call to reject the reforms that creditors had last proposed.

But that domestic victory did not appear to give him much leverage in talks with foreign creditors, who know Tsipras needs a deal soon to keep his country afloat. Banks have been shut for seven working days and will not reopen before Thursday, cash withdrawals have been limited for just as long, and daily business throughout the country has come to a near standstill.

So it was with some surprise that European leaders learned Tsipras did not yet have a written proposal for new rescue aid.

"I'm extremely somber about this summit. I'm also somber about the question of whether Greece really wants to come up with proposals, with a solution," Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said.

Greece's 18 eurozone partners have steadfastly said they want to help Greece stay in the currency club but have just as often complained about Greece dragging its feet during months of negotiations.

Even German Chancellor Angela Merkel warned Tsipras he was dancing close to the financial abyss.

"We are no longer talking about weeks but very few days," she said.

An official from a eurozone nation said that Greece's failure to bring clear proposals to an earlier meeting of finance ministers caused widespread frustration. Greek Finance Minister Euclid Tsakalotos instead made a presentation and discussed key issues.

Evening summary: Greece's future in the balance

I think a recap might be helpful.

Eurozone leaders are locked in an emergency summit tonight that will, most likely, determine Greece’s future in the eurozone.

Alexis Tsipras, the Greek prime minister, has laid out Athens’ plans for a new aid programme.

There are reports that Greece going to ask for a short-term funding deal, to cover its immediate needs, and then a longer package.

Sources have told the Guardian that Donald Tusk, president of the European Council, wants a decision tonight on whether a third bailout package is viable. That will determine whether talks resume with Greece, or whether the eurozone starts planning to lose a member.

The states tonight are desperately high, as leaders talk over their vichyssoise soup, cod fillet, and chocolate mousse.

Longer term, the eurocrats believe that a Grexit will cause Greece to collapse — some eurocrats were even talking about extending "humanitarian assistance" if the country leaves — and that this might be a good thing after all, since it would push everyone else to toe the line. Many Germans want to crush Greece pour encourager les autres. On top of being highly questionable morally, it is, to put it mildly, not sensible

Lending money alone has not been fruitful to Greece as corruption at government levels is far greater than we anticipated, what's needed is a sort of Marshall Plan to encourage investments in Greece, promote industry and stabilize the work force. That's where the EU should put emphasis in, helping Greece to gain economic freedom and stabilize its economy.

I believe Greece is a basket case, and no amount of bailouts will save their economy. Germany alone can't save the Euro. It seems more bailouts to Greece will only exacerbate the Euro's inflation.