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Do you think the Pope should resign?

 
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 06:55 pm
Where would all the Catholics go, if the Pope resigned? Could they remain Catholic, or would they have to become like mendicants, asking for spiritual alms from Protestant denominations?
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 07:05 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
Where would all the Catholics go, if the Pope resigned? Could they remain Catholic, or would they have to become like mendicants, asking for spiritual alms from Protestant denominations?


You kidding correct?

The church fathers wold burn some more paper and when the smoke turn white where would be a new Pope.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 08:29 pm
Quote:
Do you think the Pope should resign?


I'm kinda leaning more towards indicted with what's been coming out recently. And the excuses, my good god ... god must be turning in his grave.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 09:36 am
@JTT,
God's dead? Time magazine was RIGHT?
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  5  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 10:23 am
Maureen Dowd nails it:

Quote:
April 11, 2010
Op-Ed Columnist
Worlds Without Women
By MAUREEN DOWD
WASHINGTON

When I was in Saudi Arabia, I had tea and sweets with a group of educated and sophisticated young professional women.

I asked why they were not more upset about living in a country where women’s rights were strangled, an inbred and autocratic state more like an archaic men’s club than a modern nation. They told me, somewhat defensively, that the kingdom was moving at its own pace, glacial as that seemed to outsiders.

How could such spirited women, smart and successful on every other level, acquiesce in their own subordination?

I was puzzling over that one when it hit me: As a Catholic woman, I was doing the same thing.

I, too, belonged to an inbred and wealthy men’s club cloistered behind walls and disdaining modernity.

I, too, remained part of an autocratic society that repressed women and ignored their progress in the secular world.

I, too, rationalized as men in dresses allowed our religious kingdom to decay and to cling to outdated misogynistic rituals, blind to the benefits of welcoming women’s brains, talents and hearts into their ancient fraternity.

To circumscribe women, Saudi Arabia took Islam’s moral codes and orthodoxy to extremes not outlined by Muhammad; the Catholic Church took its moral codes and orthodoxy to extremes not outlined by Jesus. In the New Testament, Jesus is surrounded by strong women and never advocates that any woman " whether she’s his mother or a prostitute " be treated as a second-class citizen.

Negating women is at the heart of the church’s hideous " and criminal " indifference to the welfare of boys and girls in its priests’ care. Lisa Miller writes in Newsweek’s cover story about the danger of continuing to marginalize women in a disgraced church that has Mary at the center of its founding story:

“In the Roman Catholic corporation, the senior executives live and work, as they have for a thousand years, eschewing not just marriage, but intimacy with women ... not to mention any chance to familiarize themselves with the earthy, primal messiness of families and children.” No wonder that, having closed themselves off from women and everything maternal, they treated children as collateral damage, a necessary sacrifice to save face for Mother Church.

And the sins of the fathers just keep coming. On Friday, The Associated Press broke the latest story pointing the finger of blame directly at Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, quoting from a letter written in Latin in which he resisted pleas to defrock a California priest who had sexually molested children.

As the longtime Vatican enforcer, the archconservative Ratzinger " now Pope Benedict XVI " moved avidly to persecute dissenters. But with molesters, he was plodding and even merciful.

As the A.P. reported, the Oakland diocese recommended defrocking Father Stephen Kiesle in 1981. The priest had pleaded no contest and was sentenced to three years’ probation in 1978 in a case in which he was accused of tying up and molesting two boys in a church rectory.

In 1982, the Oakland diocese got what it termed a “rather curt” response from the Vatican. It wasn’t until 1985 that “God’s Rottweiler” finally got around to addressing the California bishop’s concern. He sent his letter urging the diocese to give the 38-year-old pedophile “as much paternal care as possible” and to consider “his young age.” Ratzinger should have been more alarmed by the young age of the priest’s victims; that’s what maternal care would have entailed.

As in so many other cases, the primary concern seemed to be shielding the church from scandal. Chillingly, outrageously, the future pope told the Oakland bishop to consider the “good of the universal church” before granting the priest’s own request to give up the collar " even though the bishop had advised Rome that the scandal would likely be greater if the priest were not punished.

While the Vatican sat on the case " asking the diocese to resubmit the files, saying they might have been lost " Kiesle volunteered as a youth minister at a church north of Oakland. The A.P. also reported that even after the priest was finally defrocked in 1987, he continued to volunteer with children in the Oakland diocese; repeated warnings to church officials were ignored.

The Vatican must realize that the church’s belligerent, resentful and paranoid response to the global scandal is not working because it now says it will cooperate with secular justice systems and that the pope will have more meetings with victims. It is too little, too late.

The church that through the ages taught me and other children right from wrong did not know right from wrong when it came to children. Crimes were swept under the rectory rug, and molesters were protected to molest again for the “good of the universal church.” And that is bad, very bad " a mortal sin.

The church has had theological schisms. This is an emotional schism. The pope is morally compromised. Take it from a sister.


Joe(She's finally figuring out that Jesus' church was hijacked by Paul)Nation


JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 10:55 am
@Joe Nation,
That's dead on, Joe. I'm gonna post it in the Do you think the Pope should resign? thread, if you don't mind.
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 03:02 am
@JTT,
but...this IS that thread.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 02:54 pm
@Ragman,

I never understood that either.

Something to do with magic mushrooms, I think.
Francis
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 03:02 pm
@McTag,
However, I've a different reading of it and find it extremely funny and pun..itive!
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 03:17 pm
@Francis,
I might be dense (or stoned). but would you care to explain where and what the pun is?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 05:33 pm
@Joe Nation,
Dowd's comparison of herself to the group of Saudi women she met is laughable.

Dowd lives in a land where no religion is an arm of the state and for whatever the failings of the Catholic Church may or may not be, Dowd is not, unless it's her dream to become a priest, oppressed or even limited by it.

What's more, she's perfectly free to completely and publicly disassociate herself from her religion, which is most certainly not a option for Saudi women.

But let's move beyond her tortured attempt to compare the Catholic Church to the Saudi Kingdom and herself to oppressed Saudi women, and consider her premise that it is the "negation" of women that has led the Church to its current sorry state of affairs.

I'm sure it thrilled Dowd to draw a connection between feminism denied by the Catholic Church and the molestation of children and the organizational cover-up that ensued, but it's nonsense.

Presumably, if the Church permitted women to hold positions of power in it hierarchy, the molestations and their cover-up would never of happened.

What evidence Dowd has for this theory is a mystery.

Women don't do bad things?

Women who were permitted to attain high positions in the Church would, unquestionably, have chosen not to "protect" the Church in the way those vile men did?

Nuns knew of these molestations and, in most cases, chose to protect the Church rather than the children who were being victimized.

There is no gender divide in this sordid mess, and Dodd reveals how little she knows about her claimed Church by suggesting there is.

Organized religion has done much that is good in the world, but as soon as it establishes a special caste (whether male or female) that demands any level of authority over laymen, it moves far down the wrong path.


tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 04:41 am
John Hodgeman has th solution to this whole mess:
You're Welcome - Church Scandal Prevention
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-april-14-2010/you-re-welcome---church-scandal-prevention
mags314772
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 04:54 am
@tsarstepan,
great solution...very doable
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 08:56 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
You know, Finn, I completely agree with you. Every stinking one of them, priest and nun, ought to be thrown in jail after being made to publicly confess the abdication of their roles as spiritual leader. And every member of the hierarchy who even hesitated for ONE day, when possessed of evidence of child (THEY ARE CHILDREN I REMIND YOU) molestation, ought to be sentenced to the longest sentences possible under our present legal system.

I, myself, with the greatest sense of charity, will convene an organization who will visit on a daily basis each and every convicted member of the Church during their time in prison. We will do this out of our duty to assist the sinner.

Joe(and make sure the bastards serve every fecking day of their sentence.)Nation
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 09:21 pm
I read Finn flittingly - and think he/you have no compass at all, re M. Dowd.

I was almost a nun, a very long time ago. I was busy being exalted by the efforts of some nuns to recruit me when I stopped giving a ****. A nun I was knew via her sister was conversant with Caesar Chavez and Harold Pinter - no kidding. Nuns aren't stupid in some kind of general definition.

I always get Maureen Dowd. I don't always agree with her.
dlowan
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 09:03 am
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:

John Hodgeman has th solution to this whole mess:
You're Welcome - Church Scandal Prevention
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-april-14-2010/you-re-welcome---church-scandal-prevention


Altar chimps!
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 09:03 am
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
Joe(She's finally figuring out that Jesus' church was hijacked by Paul)Nation


Right little prick, weren't he?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 03:04 pm
@ossobuco,
You know, you don't have to offer qualifications when commenting on my posts. I don't think anyone will take away your A2K Liberal pin just for acknowledging that you've read Finn.

Now, if I understood what you were saying here I would respond to it in greater depth.

Since you always get Dowd, and believe Joe and I did not, perhaps you would care to enlighten us both.

BTW - Did Dowd want to be a nun once upon a time?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 03:18 pm
@Joe Nation,
Anyone and everyone within the Church who are guilty of crimes associated with the molestation of children should be fully prosecuted and punished.

There is no doubt what-so-ever, that the Church in the US covered up crimes and protected criminals. It was sickening, however unless one believes that these people enjoy a special status or one is hell bent on attacking organized religion, the crimes were no worse than those of the same nature committed by teachers, day-care workers, Boy Scout pack leaders, or anyone else who has taken advantage of what should be a special and trusted relationship with children.

Your sarcasm about visiting jailed nuns and priests is rather lame, and demonstrates that your outrage here is as much about organized religion as abused children.

And...how the hell Dowd "nailed it," is still beyond me unless you agree that the Catholic Church's "negation" of women led to pedophile priests and official cover-up of their crimes.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2010 12:36 pm
@Ragman,
Aye, that it is, Ragman.



[got ya ta thinking, did I not?]
0 Replies
 
 

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