Congrats USA! Health care for all!! ??

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Ok, I've been watching and hoping that this would happen. I don't quite understand the logic behind the anti-health care movement. Some seemed to hate it because it was a Democrat's platform and the rest mostly just seem to really dislike other Americans, or at least contributing to their well being. I've tried, really I have to understand the debate, the nay side, but I'm afraid I don't quite understand the problem. But I'm happy for you all, none the less.
Hope you are too.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 40 • Views: 20,324 • Replies: 254

'Bout damn time!

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@Ceili,

I'm not a fan of it and think it's a big mistake (but still better than the status quo). I just think it contributes public money to a broken healthcare system. I prefer a public healthcare system but now I'll never live to see that in America.

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I wouldn't be so sure, Robert. Remember the polls before politics reared its ugly head showed quite a large majority of people supported a public option. With the expansion of Medicaid/Medicare, many more people will be brought into our little version of the single-payer health care system the rest of the industrialized world uses, and the more people in it, the better it will look to everyone trapped outside it, and the more it'll be able to expand.

I was particularly struck in the debates by the cognitive dissonance the Republicans showed, when they simultaneously argued that public option was too expensive , but then said that public option was unacceptable because it was unfair to private insurance companies because it was cheaper than they were because it didn't have to make a profit. Hard to reconcile it being both more expensive and cheaper. Now that their voices are going to be muted, we can start getting the truth out for the next step.

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Isnt it true that now you have a measure of looking after the poor you can always change the system to be more efficient but how many opportunities will be forthcoming to include the poor ? If your life was on the line when would you want it done ? Wasnt it a case of now or 10 yrs time ?

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@MontereyJack,

I'm not talking about a public health care insurance option, or a single-payer health care option though. I'm talking about public health care (as in the care itself is delivered through public facilities and public employees).

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@Ceili,

Ceili wrote:

Ok, I've been watching and hoping that this would happen. I don't quite understand the logic behind the anti-health care movement. Some seemed to hate it because it was a Democrat's platform and the rest mostly just seem to really dislike other Americans, or at least contributing to their well being. I've tried, really I have to understand the debate, the nay side, but I'm afraid I don't quite understand the problem. But I'm happy for you all, none the less.

Hope you are too.

I am not happy with it. Government was NOT created to do this. Government has NO AUTHORITY
to do this. It is another act of USURPATION.

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@OmSigDAVID,

This is actually part of the "Promote the General Welfare" as is stated in the Constitutions preamble.
Most of the material that was hounded against was not even in the Health care bill, like the "death committees". My senators had their staffs do a precis of the helth bill at its latest version in both bodies of Congress. and this was available to read for a while (Obviously the websites will be containing latest versions I believe).

Im amazed at how petulant an entire political party has been. If everyone agreed that the system was broken, why didnt teh GOP use its own bully pulpit to make the case for any of its own insertions? reason was, they really didnt have anything except a "STOP OBAMA" campaign.

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come on guys, everybody got what they wanted, the conservatives got a war that bankrupted the country and the libs got healthcare that will probably further bankrupt the country, let's call it even and move on Twisted Evil

i got an idea for you, how about strengthening your dollar, it's at par now and that sucks, try to get it to about $1.15 canadian please, it would be much better for us

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I'm glad it passed only because it means politicians will now have to really work on it and make it into something that might be useful. It keeps the problem in the light. If it had failed, the whole topic would have been locked back in the Whitehouse basement for another 20 years while the current system continued to implode.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

This is actually part of the "Promote the General Welfare" as is stated in the Constitutions preamble.

This is actually violative of the Tenth Amendment as is stated in the Constitution's Bill of Rights.

The preamble is not an operative part of the Constitution.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

The preamble is not an operative part of the Constitution..

You don't know your constitution very well, do you David. You might want to read Art 1 Section 8. It pretty much negates your 10th amendment argument since Congress is clearly given the power to provide for the general welfare.

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I am not happy with it. Government was NOT created to do this. Government has NO AUTHORITY
to do this. It is another act of USURPATION.

How so? Doesn't the preamble to the Constitution say that the purpose is to "provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity?" I would think that healthcare both promotes the general welfare and is part of securing the blessings of liberty.

Edit: Sorry, I see this argument has already been made.

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I am not happy with it. Government was NOT created to do this. Government has NO AUTHORITY
to do this. It is another act of USURPATION.

How so? Doesn't the preamble to the Constitution say that the purpose is to "provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity?" I would think that healthcare both promotes the general welfare and is part of securing the blessings of liberty.

Edit: Sorry, I see this argument has already been made.

Yes; made and refuted.

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Yes; made and refuted.

I don't think you can claim that until you respond to Parados.

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david, what do you think the taxes collected are to be used FOR? the Constitution is very explicit. They are to be used to promote the general welfare. A majority of Congress has explicitly said health care reform is the general welfare. You may not like it. Too bad. You're outvoted.

You also say the government has no power to make us buy something we don't want. Of course it does. It made me buy two wars I didn't want. Now it's going to buy health care. You don't want it. We do. You're outvoted again. Too bad.

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

I would think that healthcare both promotes the general welfare and is part of securing the blessings of liberty.

IMO, it only promotes the general welfare of health insurance companies and big pharma, while forcing people to buy their product or face the threat of fines and/or jail.

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As far as I am concerned, I don't give a rat's ass about the whole thing. I will probably not be around twenty years from now.

I feel sorry for the young people who think that they will be getting something for nothing. I have visions of the medical profession degrading into mediocrity, as the best and the brighest young people will stay away from medicine like the plague. Who wants to be told what to do by a bunch of self serving bureaucrats?

I am appalled that people who have paid for expensive medical coverage will be taxed, so that people who have put little into the system will be covered.

Remember, if the government taxes to give services to people who do not give their share to the economy, the money has to come from somewhere. And guess where that money will come from?

Be afraid..................be very afraid. This is only the beginning!

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Yes; made and refuted.

I don't think you can claim that until you respond to Parados.

That has already been done in another thread.
http://able2know.org/topic/142964-5

I prefer not to be unnecessarily redundant here.

David

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@Phoenix32890,

Quote:

Be afraid..................be very afraid. This is only the beginning!

This is nowhere near the beginning. This is a process that has been going on for 100 years at least, we had social security, and we had civil rights and we had medicare...

All of these things were greeted with the same apocalyptic visions of doom.

The real beginning was when we gave women the right to vote.

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Congrats USA! Health care for all!! ??

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