40
   

Congrats USA! Health care for all!! ??

 
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:34 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

Anyone who would take the law away must have substitute which can guarantee every American affordable health insurance ...


In what way will the Obama health mandate result in what has been called "affordable health insurance"?

Quality health insurance is not cheap.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:41 pm
@Miller,
Miller wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Anyone who would take the law away must have substitute which can guarantee every American affordable health insurance ...


In what way will the Obama health mandate result in what has been called "affordable health insurance"?

Quality health insurance is not cheap.


Funny, it is in pretty much every other developed country.

Cycloptichorn
Rockhead
 
  3  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:43 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
that's because here, we have to make a profit from sick folks...
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:58 pm
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

that's because here, we have to make a profit from sick folks...


Why "sick folks"? If it weren't for the "well folks" buying insurance, who do you think would fork up the dough for treating the "sick folks"?
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 02:17 pm
@Miller,
Most people are healthy till they get sick..thus the need for insurance.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 04:29 pm
@Rockhead,
It's not always easy to detect tone in a post, but it is with this one, but maybe that's because they are always of the same tone.

Never-the-less, you have inadvertently put your finger on a substantive difference between the Left (who reliably deny their are not socialists) and the Right in America.

In a capitalistic system, everything is driven by profit. If one recognizes that this leads, overall, to the best outcomes, profit is nothing at which to be sneered.

When someone devotes a sizable portion of their adulthood and quite a lot of money to developing the knowledge and skills to provide top level health care to sick people, why should they not expect to profit?

Do you really think these people need to make the sacrifices they do solely out of a desire to help others?

More importantly, do you think that their desire to profit from their knowledge and skills in any way diminishes the care they provide their patients?

The socialist alternative to a profit based system would be one where the government pays for the education of doctors and then their services. Of course, under such a system the government must decide who will be educated to be a doctor, and its means of determination may have nothing to do with the aspirations of the person.

Nevertheless it would be a system wherein no one profited from sickness, and so would meet the primary test of the Left, it would sound good on it's face. It would, obviously, meet your test.

Successful complex systems defy facile explanations, and don't operate with rules determined by the adolescent wishes of observers.

There is a reason children naturally gravitate towards the concepts of socialism.







DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 04:57 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
In a capitalistic system, everything is driven by profit. If one recognizes that this leads, overall, to the best outcomes....

And we have the economic meltdown to prove it!
parados
 
  3  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 05:21 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
The socialist alternative to a profit based system would be one where the government pays for the education of doctors and then their services. Of course, under such a system the government must decide who will be educated to be a doctor, and its means of determination may have nothing to do with the aspirations of the person.

That is socialist medicine?

Tell us again why you people on the right keep calling Obamacare socialist medicine?
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  3  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 07:15 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
first off, finn, **** you and your sneering derogatory tone.

secondly toss out all the strawmen arguments you made for me and my adolescent self...

and thirdly, medicine driven solely by profit leaves those without the recources to pay a premium profit to the doctor gods without even basic medical care.

I know, they are supposed to wither and die for the greater good of the profiteers...
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 07:53 pm
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

first off, finn, **** you and your sneering derogatory tone.

Take away his sneering, derogatory tone and you'd leave him mute.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2012 12:33 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The socialist alternative to a profit based system would be one where the government pays for the education of doctors and then their services. Of course, under such a system the government must decide who will be educated to be a doctor, and its means of determination may have nothing to do with the aspirations of the person.
I suppose - since "socialised health care" was 'invented' in Germany 130 years, we could qualify here.
But obviously we don't: though the state/government pays the education of doctors (university education is without fees in most states here), physicians' services aren't paid by the state/government: in hospitals, they get a salary from their employer, in practises from the health insurances and patients.

The 'government' somehow does decide who will be eucated to become a doctor: students must qualify by the results of their Abitur (qualification for university entrance); but that's important for other degree courses as well.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2012 04:42 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
In a capitalistic system, everything is driven by profit. If one recognizes that this leads, overall, to the best outcomes....

And we have the economic meltdown to prove it!

Unlike the Soviet Union which is flourishing.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2012 05:19 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

DrewDad wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
In a capitalistic system, everything is driven by profit. If one recognizes that this leads, overall, to the best outcomes....

And we have the economic meltdown to prove it!

Unlike the Soviet Union which is flourishing.
Just to inform you about this news, Brandon: a Soviet Union doesn't exist since 1991.
Quote:
However, since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the health of the Russian population has declined considerably as a result of social, economic, and lifestyle changes.
Source
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 10:07 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

DrewDad wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
In a capitalistic system, everything is driven by profit. If one recognizes that this leads, overall, to the best outcomes....

And we have the economic meltdown to prove it!

Unlike the Soviet Union which is flourishing.
Just to inform you about this news, Brandon: a Soviet Union doesn't exist since 1991.
Quote:
However, since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the health of the Russian population has declined considerably as a result of social, economic, and lifestyle changes.
Source

That was my point. Look up "sarcasm."
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jul, 2012 11:08 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

That was my point. Look up "sarcasm."
Sorry. I missed it that you called Russia with it's former sarcastically. (But I'm only a Saxon and not an Anglo-Saxon)
0 Replies
 
 

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