Trolls, or trolling behaviour ...how do we deal with these isues as an online community?

on a wider scope A2k'ers have long had a knee jerk reaction to behaviour that is not wanted by the majority, the term "troll" is a catch all for all such, with some flimsy rationalization that the "trolls" are out to hurt the community. There might be some of that, but most who are labeled troll are not a threat to anyone. The calling out of "trolls" usually a power play by the majority in the attempt to silence and then banish the heretics.

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@hawkeye10,

What else have you heard from your head lately Rolling Eyes

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@msolga,

a book for ms. olga - may also be used for controlling a2k trolls Wink

:

http://www.classroomdiscipline101.com/?gclid=CM2Jx5yhyqACFSFy5QodQ3zZaA

Quote:

Give Me a Week and I'll Show You
How to Eliminate Classroom Discipline Problems Forever

GOOD LUCK !!!

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@hawkeye10,

I never understood why Ramafuchs was called a troll and put on ignore to the point that he left, apparently after four years and almost 5,000 posts. He never called anyone names, he always tried to stick to the subject and he used the most poetic English I've read on this board.
Here's his description of McCain:

Quote:

This old guy had adopted a girl from Bangladesh and married a bewitching social worker after leaving the first wife

Here's one of his responses to a reply to one of his posts:

Quote:

Thank you for those sincere words which I adore.

Here are a few of his posts:

Quote:

None of the observers around the globe have a drop of tear to shead for the future killer of the poverty stricken world. CHANGE HOPE is far far away from USA

Quote:

it is not a question of perfection but a question of decency.
We, the observers from outside expect a simple decent guy without much fanfare (which we had endured for the last 17 months) to sharpen their sword to butcher the poor innocents.

Showing the dirty linen in the name of USA as a flag will drive the decent rational people to keep aloof.
projecting the criminal corporations and putting their name in the RICHEST PEOPLE AROUND THE GLOBE will make a hungry innocent school girl in Eheopia to laugh.
After this barbaric banal pathetic compassionate conservative criminal calamity the observers still long to achieve the unachievable AMERICAN DREAM.

Here's one where he was talking about the debates in the 2008 election, but he could have been addressing this subject from HIS stance - someone who was not malicious or spiteful but who people just didn't seem find popular.

Quote:

I have a dream. my dream is democracy. a debate should take place with all the aspirants of the post( irrespective of their unpopularity)

It's a shame that the people who can't operate inside the auspices of what has been determined to be a narrow and prescribed view of 'appropriate' are automatically called trolls sometimes.

If Ramafuchs were still here - I'd be a follower of his. I used to enjoy getting up in the morning and reading his writing - it didn't matter what subject it was on. But once ignore got here, I can't count how many people I read saying, 'I have Ramafuchs on ignore' and I was like, 'WHAT?! He's one of my favorite posters.'

He definitely had a profile that was my favorite of any poster ever:

Quote:

I am a vegitarian and a chain smoker.
My views are very critical .
I always respond with cuts and pastes with relevant links

That guy had a sense of humor. I'd love him to come back.

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@aidan,

Quote:

That guy had a sense of humor.

Lack of humor has been a huge problem around here. We have a lot of ha-ha threads I know, but the basic ability to approach people we don't agree with with a sense of humor and basic human respect has been sorely missing.

I say that as a guy with a weak sense of humor, but I know that about myself. I am also 47 year old, you don't successfully get to this point without learning to find and enjoy the humor in life. Otherwise life has entirely too much suck to make it worthwhile.

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

Quote:
you wish to eradicate trollish behavior, but not everyone shares your view.

Sure. But I think, if they were the subject of some serious trollish behaviour themselves, they might develop a different view.

I think your outlook is unrealistic. Here you seem to say that the "trollish behavior" to which you refer does actually exist in a recognizable form. I don't think that's necessarily so. I don't much go to the political threads anymore, but when i did frequent them, this was about the only kind of post one saw. People on either side of an ideological divide would shout the same things at one another repetitively, and over the years with increasing acrimony. In those situations, who's to be seen as the troll, and who the nobly suffering, reasonable member?

I have scanned this thread before going back to read each post, and possibly respond. We've got "Hawkeye" here complaining that the word troll is used to shut people up who have unpopular views. That's one of his favorite whines, and of course the very point of this thread is that those whom someone might consider a troll can't be shut up. They can't be shut up, and they can't be excluded from threads. (Which, of course, makes "Hawkeye's" whiny, self-serving complaint ridiculous.) That sort of complaint has been made before by people like Zippo or Blueflame, who complained that people wanted to shut them up--so to me it is obvious that the cranks come form both sides of the aisle.

Actually, Miss Olga, i'd just say you've lead a sheltered life here at this site. Region had some very good points to make.

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@Region Philbis,

Region Philbis wrote:

but more importantly, don't become a victim.
don't allow them to have that power over you.

trolls crave attention.
if you reply to them, you make them happy...

I hope Miss Olga doesn't take this the wrong way, because i do like her, and often enjoy her posts.

This is precisely the problem we have here. There are a core of members, such a Miss Olga, who seem to think that you can engage these members in a reasonable manner, and that they will respond by behaving in a reasonable manner.

But Region is right--don't fee the trolls. I'd say that in many cases, Miss Olga is just as responsible for a thread being trashed as are the people of whom she complains. There are several members whom i ignore. I don't use some silly electronic feature--i just don't read their posts. That may not stop them from responding to what i post, i can't tell, because i really don't read their posts. But it doesn't go any further than that, because i don't repond to their posts, and the back and forth never gets started.

Miss Olga, you really need to learn to simply ignore these people. Don't attempt to appeal to reason--if they were reasonable, they wouldn't behave in that manner in the first place.

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

is obvious that the cranks come form both sides of the aisle.

The allegations of my crankiness are exaggerated.

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@dyslexia,

really? naaaw.

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dlowan wrote:

djjd62 wrote:
what is this side of you that brings out these folks,

My opinion? Msolga continues to respond to them, very reasonably...on and on and on and on. They adore her.

Oh yeah . . . for whatever she may intend, Miss Olga is just as much a part of the problem as are those she refers to as trolls.

EDIT: OK, those last two posts by eBeth were actually by me--i didn't realize that she was still logged in.

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@Setanta,

she is far from alone there, however.

(i smelled your aftershave, knew it could not be the girl...)

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Miss Olga, at Abuzz, the whole place went to hell after September 11th, 2001. Even before that, it had begun to be infiltrated by people with political agendas who would disrupt threads, but the flood gates opened after September 11th

The people there who still formed a community (more or less) responded with a saying: Scroll, scroll, scroll!

It was the only effective thing you could do (there was no "ignore" function there). I ignore several members, and do it by the simple expedient of never reading their posts. At Abuzz, when one of these jokers would begin ranting in a thread, someone would invariably post: "Scroll, scroll, scroll!" They were right. Don't feed the trolls. You'll do a lot better if you just ignore the gobshites (including me, it that's how you see me), than to respond, and feed their desire for attention.

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@Rockhead,

I gotta stop shavin' . . .

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@Setanta,

Miss Noddy would do that here too, set. It was a reminder call that the discussion was going down a path towards inanity. Perhaps that role should fall to the thread initiator as a way to moderate their own threads - or to anyone else, I suppose, who thinks it's time to get back on point.

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@JPB,

I miss her...

a lot.

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@Rockhead,

me too, she was wonderful and wise

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Having read the comments, the answer to the thread title may be that it is behavior that we each must deal with individually and in an "ad hoc" manner. The problem with the thread title is the phrase, "as an online community". We can't deal with it that way because definitions of trolling are different for each of us.

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

But I am talking of systematic derailment of threads here, dapad.

I, too, have used the "ignore" function for the very first time recently. But [...]it does not address the "following another A2Ker around" issue, nor does it address the deliberate thread derailing issue.

It did solve the problem for me. Over the years, Ive had a few people follow me around and talk trash to me. By cosequently ignoring every user who's waisting my time, I removed, say, 90% of the problem. The remaining 10% consist of users I like who defend me against the attacker. That's usually how I learn about the attack in the first place. But I can live with this residuum.

As they say, never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

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@aidan,

aidan wrote:

I never understood why Ramafuchs was called a troll and put on ignore to the point that he left, .......

I'm curious - has anyone, ever, on this or on any other forum, seen an entry in favor of Rama Fuchs?! Your post stretches credulity - of course everyone had that pest on ignore everywhere; however as a courtesy to you I looked up the current entry for him and Mrs Fuchs on the Cologne phone book, in case you wish to contact him. I'm sure he would love to hear from the one and only (to my knowledge) person who liked his nonsense on the internet:

Fuchs Ramamurthy u. Margarete
Josefstr. 56 51143 Köln
02203 5 32 85

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OK, I hear you all.

Ignore trolls.

Don't engage with them.

Stop being so "reasonable" & expecting others to be reasonable in response.

Sure, but to me, anyway, this solves the problem for individuals, but doesn't really address the problem of good threads wrecked by trolling behaviour. Looks pretty much like the reasonable folk involved in such threads just have to wear that as a fact of life. That may well be true but I also think it's a pretty sad state of affairs. Apparently that's just how things are. It doesn't encourage anyone to attempt to instigate too many of the more interesting or challenging threads. I think I've personally been put off trying, anyway.

OK. Thanks for your involvement in this discussion. It's certainly been an interesting one.

2 Replies

Trolls, or trolling behaviour ...how do we deal with these isues as an online community?

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