Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea? If so, why?

@farmerman,

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Maybe this is where your ignorance originates. We have a Constitution, the first Amendment

I made a subtle reference to that earlier. I am not suggesting a state religion. That is tantamount to a theocracy. I am suggesting that facilities be available for the public education of children in religion where prior approval is granted by the parents. I see no reason why Muslims, Christians, Jews etc can not all use classroom facilities for religious instruction outside or even during school hours. Here, we have one hour a week of general religious instruction and if you dont want your children to participate they are supervised in other pursuits.

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SO Id suggest that you should do a lot more reading on this subject.

That was amusing.

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Further, noone has tried to infiltrate the parochial schools with Evolution science if that goes against their worldview.

Here, if the school wishes to be acredited as a school and not a formalised truancy then they have to teach the core subjects required by law, which includes evolution in science.

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In the US, you are free to teach Creationism , just not in the public schools AND, if you teach it in your own parochial schools, noone is busy trying to substitute Darwin for your catechism. If you believe otherwise, youre just flat uninformed.

Clearly when they were handing out Constitutions the US was off having a whizz. How can you say it is a school if it doesnt teach science ? What about the rights of the children to get an education and not an indoctrination ? Who is stopping common sense from breaking out, the NRA ?

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@Ionus,

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How can you say it is a school if it doesnt teach science ?

How can you say you are of even average intelligence if you ask that question?

Schools are required to teach certain subjects to meet the graduation requirements for the students. They can then teach anything they want above and beyond that. It amazes me how simple minded you conservatives are when it comes to thinking in anything beyond yes/no ideas.

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@farmerman,

Here we have agreed on certain things :
1) Children have a right to be educated.
2) The State and soon the Commonwealth set a core curricula...standards of teaching and learning must be met to qualify as a school.
3) Children must attend a school - home schooling involves special circumstances, it is not the default.
4) All religions are entitled to educate their children in religion. This is not to replace core subjects like science.
Why is that against the USA constitution ?

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@parados,

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How can you say you are of even average intelligence if you ask that question?

From you dickless that is a compliment.

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Schools are required to teach certain subjects to meet the graduation requirements for the students.

Science is not a core subject ? Was that your idea ?

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It amazes me how simple minded you conservatives are when it comes to thinking in anything beyond yes/no ideas.

That is the dumbest thing to date from you. You are exceptionally stupid. Do you mean yes/no ideas like women and homosexuals must join the army it is a right ? Or that homosexuals must get married ? Or that Global Warming will destroy us all ? Or that all animals everywhere must be saved ? That if you read about it in the PC thugs guidebook it is a yes idea, if you dont it is a no idea...

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I fail to see why members of any religion feel Evolution is contrary to the doctrines they hold. I see no contradiction at all. There are thousands of creation myths, some are lyrical, some are violent and some are silly. We live in an age when we can look back in time through telescopes and look deep within through DNA. Why should we upturn this magnificent science . . . which the religious ought to hail as a sign that God gave humans intelligence and free will . . . in the name of ideas our Bronze Age forebears devised?

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@plainoldme,

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I fail to see why members of any religion feel Evolution is contrary to the doctrines they hold. I see no contradiction at all. There are thousands of creation myths, some are lyrical, some are violent and some are silly. We live in an age when we can look back in time through telescopes and look deep within through DNA. Why should we upturn this magnificent science . . . which the religious ought to hail as a sign that God gave humans intelligence and free will . . . in the name of ideas our Bronze Age forebears devised?

Well said...worth repeating.

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@Ionus,

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I made a subtle reference to that earlier. I am not suggesting a state religion. That is tantamount to a theocracy. I am suggesting that facilities be available for the public education of children in religion where prior approval is granted by the parents. I see no reason why Muslims, Christians, Jews etc can not all use classroom facilities for religious instruction outside or even during school hours.

Can you see that qhen a religious group demands that its view of how the world came into being and how life developed on the planet, be taught as SCIENCE, we have a clear discrepancy to the maintenance of a secular state. FREE EXPRESSION does not mean that your beliefs must be taken seriously in a public school.

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Clearly when they were handing out Constitutions the US was off having a whizz. How can you say it is a school if it doesnt teach science ? What about the rights of the children to get an education and not an indoctrination ? Who is stopping common sense from breaking out, the NRA ?

I dont understand whats so difficult. You seem to be purposely dense on this. NOONE HANDED US A CONSTITUTION, we hammered it out and the Bill of rights are a minimum statement that involves the expected rights of the individual. The Supreme Court has had ample opportunity to tell us what the constitution means and most decisions are sane. The most recent decison of Edwards v Aguillard , clearly stated what the court saw as "religious teaching" masquerading as science. Thus the SUpremes struck down the teaching of Creationism in Louisianas schools because there was a law in Louisiana that required eqaul time be given to Creationism in science classes.Thats clearly a minority religious view.

Im not gonna discuss this any further with you until you honestly show that youve spent some time understanding about which you speak. I think youre being purposely absurd in you abstruse statements and are merely trying to commingle the flyshit with the pepper.

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@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

I fail to see why members of any religion feel Evolution is contrary to the doctrines they hold.

Really? You don't see how evolution contradicts the Biblical account of how life came about? You don't see how it contradicts the doctrine of some Christian denominations that the Bible is literally true?

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@Ionus,

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4) All religions are entitled to educate their children in religion.WE DONT DO THIS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS. PERIOD== This is not to replace core subjects like science. ONCE MORE BECAUSE YOU DONT SEEM TO WANNA GET IT> "replacement" of core subjects like biology with some Creationist junk is exactly what the fundamentalist religion groups want to accomplish. It is also a key block in "THE WEDGE STRATEGY" that was snuck out onto the web in late 1990's by someone who had knowledge of the stretegy of the Discovery Institute
Why is that against the USA constitution ? please read our constitution before taking silly stands

You can teach the trutle theory of creation , as long as its not in a public school. That has nothing to do with fuckin with anyones religious freedoms. In fact, it preserves the religious freedoms of those who dont buy into Creationism as being valid. You seem to be standing up for some "license" of the religious fundamentalists to impose their limited worldview on the rest of us.

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@Thomas,

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You don't see how evolution contradicts the Biblical account of how life came about?

I dont.

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You don't see how it contradicts the doctrine of some Christian denominations that the Bible is literally true?

Christian, Muslim and Jewish denominations all have fundamentalists who hold the Old Testament is literally true but this is about the power of the person who stands in front of them once a week, not the writing itself.

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@Thomas,

As I said, there are many creation myths, just as most ethnic groups have foundation myths. The contradiction is in the minds of some who refuse to put the origin legends that they hold dear in context. From an anthropological, historical, literary and religious point of view, these myths are valuable and should be cherished. They however have nothing to do with either biology or chemistry or geology. Keep everything in its own sphere.

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@edgarblythe,

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Slippery as an eel, he evades by attacking through the back door. That was beautifully expressed farmerman, but there are those who simply do not wish to know.

Four assertions eh? And an evasion.

Then there's this from Setanta--

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This thread has gone to Hell in a hand basket . . .

Not only an assertion but an evasion and an insult to participants here. On top of that it's a cliche.

As I said earlier--evolution is a dangerous idea because those who embrace it would be shunned in pubs for their pointless, repetitive, unoriginal, style-free and boring conversations which are nothing but blurts the only function of which is to remind educated boozers of their presence and motivate them to move further up the bar out of earshot.

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@Ionus,

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Why is that against the USA constitution

Then they could get on with ethnic cleansing and slavery without interference from the religious conscience.

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@farmerman,

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Can you see that qhen a religious group demands that its view of how the world came into being and how life developed on the planet, be taught as SCIENCE, we have a clear discrepancy to the maintenance of a secular state.

What would you do fm without such groups? Their existence enables you to attack religion in general.

Is a secular state a dangerous idea? What is a secular state?

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I dont understand whats so difficult. You seem to be purposely dense on this. NOONE HANDED US A CONSTITUTION, we hammered it out and the Bill of rights are a minimum statement that involves the expected rights of the individual.

And the ethnic cleansing and the slavery went on long after the Constitution was hammered out. And a few other things.

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@farmerman,

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core subjects like biology

But you don't teach biology. You only teach approved parts of the subject and the parts you do and don't teach are conditioned by religious tradition.

So let's not get over-excited about your dedication to pure science fm. Your innocence is astounding in a man of your age and experience. So much so that you are either faking it or are grossly uneducated.

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@Ionus,

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The Bible is compatible with human nature.

I did not say "human nature" ...I said "nature", as the universe, as the physical world... whether the accounts in the Bible are compatible with the scientific theories that explain the universe or nature...that's what I mean...I surely know that the Bible is compatible with human nature...with the human nature of intuition and unreasonable thinking ...

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Is this your latest nonsense ? You think the earth is flat ?

No...it's not my" latest nonsense"...this nonsense belongs to the Bible as you should have known:
1 Chronicles 16:30:
Psalm 93:1
Psalm 96:10
Psalm 104:5
Isaiah 45:18
Daniel 4:10-11
and there are more....

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Are you aware of alien hand syndrome ?

Yeah...it's a neurological disorder. In fact, Hollywood made a movie of that.

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Of a case in WWII where a man with a skin disease that could not be affected by self healing was cured by the faith of his curer ?

You have to be kidding...you're not being scientific here, my friend...I know a girl who's a believer, who also has this disease, and no preacher has been able to cure her...what happened in this case...doesn't she have enough faith? or my experiences don't count? ... and what about amputees? I haven't seen a case in which God made an amputee grow a leg...what happened there? Is it out of God's jurisdiction ?
Can you also say that sprinkling blood with a wand can cure a person with leprosy? You must be joking.

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Are you aware of the curative power/ healing power of placebos ?

What does the placebo effect has to do with magic? Can you cure cancer with the placebo effect? If so, why isn't this technique implemented in hospitals? Better yet, why don't we get rid of all the scientific, medical technologies used to treat diseases from hospitals and replace them with preachers or pastors? let's see what might happen.

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That is not what I said. Are you still faking your orgasms ?

This is what you said:

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Moderates on both sides are paying the penalty of radicalism

What is the penalty that is being paid here? And why is it a penalty?

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Your faith in science is pointless.

Tell that to millions if not billions of people who are dependent on it...especially you, who depend on a computer and a keyboard to pollute the internet with your pseudo scientific rants...

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A worship of nothingness, that can not be proven.

What the hell are you talking about "nothingness"...focus, man.

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You mean like Nazi scientific experiments.

No, I mean the discovery of the cure for polio; the discovery of the Transistor, Television, World Wide Web, Xerography,DNA Profiling,Microprocessor,CD,Penicillin, and the list goes on and on...

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Science is bias...science explains "nothing" by explaining everything: "Accident didit"...."science" is inhuman that can lead people to do inhumane things.

There is not an instance in which science says that everything was an "accident"...this is the argument that religionists or creationists tirelessly and relentlessly use in every argument. You don't understand evolution nor cosmology, much less science in general.

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Would this be the same science that is destroying nature and overpopulating the world ?

This is what I wrote:

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"faith" is unreasonable that can lead people to do unreasonable things.

If you can't understand this, I'll be glad to explain it to you.

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That reduces human existence to carbon atoms ?

I don't know what you're trying to say....are you saying that all living things are made of carbon?

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That your blind faith wants you to worship ?

I'm going to pour some libation to my altar of Albert Einstein. Twisted Evil

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@plainoldme,

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There are thousands of creation myths, some are lyrical, some are violent and some are silly.

The use of the word "silly" demonstrates a total ignorance of this subject.

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@Jason Proudmoore,

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I did not say "human nature" ...I said "nature", as the universe, as the physical world...

The word "nature" has two meanings for educated people.

1--The entire system of things with all their properties.

2--The entire system of things with all their properties in the absence of human intervention.

In the first of these the idea that we should follow nature is meaningless because we have no power to do anything else. All our actions, by this definition, are natural and obedient to determined physical laws which include mental activities.

Using the second definition, the idea that we should follow nature and allow the spontaneous course of nature's laws to determine our actions is similarly irrational and immoral. We could not have voluntary actions even.

Irrational because all human activities involve altering things and all useful activities involve intentions to improve upon the spontaneous course of nature's systems. That's what makes us human.

Immoral because everything in nature's systems is shaming to our self-esteem as humans: we even hide the act of propagation from view and the organs which complete it and we don't watch people eating. (I do sometimes I must admit but I don't let them catch me doing it.) Anyone who endeavoured to imitate the natural course of things would be justly castigated as wicked. The seven deadly sins would be in play.

Notice I refrain from simply asserting irrationality and immorality.

The natural system of things cannot be said to have for its objective the good of human beings. Or even of other beings where it is, as Tennyson said, "red in tooth and claw/ With ravin, shriek'd against his creed."

Any good produced is a result of our own efforts. Whatever in nature which gives evidence of beneficient design shows that the beneficience to be of a very limited power and the proper role of man is to co-operate with this power as best it can be understood in its time and place and not to imitate it but to continually strive to alter this natural course of things where it is possible to do so and bring it into congruence with whatever the highest standards of justice and goodness are accepted in the relevant time and place.

As J.S. Mill wrote--

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Everything, in short, which the worst men commit either against life or property is perpetrated on a larger scale by natural agents......Her plague and cholera far surpass the poison cups of the Borgias. Even the love of "order" which is thought to be a following of the ways of Nature, is in fact a contradiction of them. All which people are accustomed to deprecate as "disorder" and its consequences, is precisely a counterpart of Nature's ways. Anarchy and the Reign of Terror are overmatched in injustice, ruin and death, by a hurricane and a pestilence.

The Marquis de Sade erected Nature as his Goddess but only until he had thought it through. When he had he blasted Nature on a much grander scale that Mr Mill does.

Evolution is a dangerous idea because it promotes Nature's hegemony and devalues our admittedly weak attempts to control it. It's a Stoic doctrine. It encourages resignation, cynicism and brutality. Religion is the only answer to it.

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This thread has gone to Hell in a hand basket . . .

I'm absolved from responsibility for that because Setanta has me on Ignore or Mom's Apron as I prefer to call it.

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Pepper and flyshit - perfect.
Spendi gets more hysterically ridiculous the more he gets pinned down. fm and jason are in particularly great form today.

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Is Evolution a Dangerous Idea? If so, why?

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