How/why did bread and milk become "evil" foods?

@Tai Chi,

Well sour doughs vary. Some of mine are made with semolina (we've had this argument, the one I'm talking about is not regular white flour) mixed with buckwheat flour and usually cornmeal in the bottom crust. Sour just is a matter of yeast and its fermentation timing.

1 Reply

@Tai Chi,

Tai Chi wrote:

I recently read that about sourdough breads, Roger (lower glycemic index). Are you not convinced, or are we still talking imposter supermarket breads?

I accept the factual information, but a slice of sourdough of the same size has a lot more grams than fluffy white bread. I am not at all sure that the stuff makes a healthier sandwich in spite of its lower position on the glycemic index. Anyhow, it makes a good grilled cheese sandwich, but not so good with peanut butter and jelly.

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

Sourdough was going to be my next experiment. I've had some good luck with regular yeast bread lately but want to get away from white flour and would love to have a lower glycemic index bread -- so I can eat bread!

1 Reply

@roger,

Oops we cross posted. Okay, I get you. Open faced sandwich time? (Hard with grilled cheese I guess.)

0 Replies

@Tai Chi,

I know. [It's something similar with Swiss cheese.]

But actually, it's just and only the rye which makes the taste and colour of the pumpernickel (okay, and 24 hours of baking).

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Ha! Don't get me started on Swiss cheese Very Happy

2 Replies

@Tai Chi,

When I skype with my niece, who's now since 7 months as an exchange student in the USA, and make remarks about cheese and bread .... she gets suddenly disconnected. Wink

0 Replies

@High Seas,

Yes you're right High Seas, but my Pumpernickel is from the German deli and imported.

0 Replies

@Tai Chi,

I like Swiss cheese. Anytime I'm in a restaurant and want to show some class, I order Swiss. Pretty much the same thing, except the stuff they sell in the US has some holes in it.

1 Reply

@Tai Chi,

You can make sour doughs with half whole wheat or even whole whole wheat, using Jim Lahey's no knead bread method, which has been posted all over creation. Lahey's method has a slow rise using little yeast. Bittman has a faster rise that gives you what he calls a whole wheat brick. Then he modified it. I haven't followed all that, having just tried the original Lahey no-knead recipe.

For some damn reason I've long hated regular whole wheat bread from the market. Baaaaad pillows. Turns out I like serious grain breads, not pabalum whole wheat. I've been mixing it up with Carol Field's italian bread book, but her recipes, region to region, usually involve a lot of kneading, including slapping wet breads (now that is fun). So, recently I've read Lahey's tricks work with whole grains too, so I'm going to fool with variations.

First place I learned to make bread - the Tassajara cookbook from way back when. They were early whole wheaters.

0 Replies

@roger,

I'm almost sure I had some swiss cheese I liked once. Trouble is, if I ever make my way to a good cheese store, I'll spend my fortune trying something else.

0 Replies

Two new studies show that full fat dairy leads to LESS obesity: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/02/12/275376259/the-full-fat-paradox-whole-milk-may-keep-us-lean

1 Reply

@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Two new studies show that full fat dairy leads to LESS obesity: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/02/12/275376259/the-full-fat-paradox-whole-milk-may-keep-us-lean

was reading the other day that the idea that skim milk was great for weight control was made up by the dairy industry, as they attempted to sell defatted milk which to that point had usually been either dumped or fed to farm animals.

I think it is hilarious that supermarkets can get the same price now for what was formerly garbage as they do for regular milk. Back in the 70's the lower the fat of the milk meant the lower the price.

I'd say that the dairy industry got us pretty good, and it took way too long for science and truth tellers to confront their very profitable to them marketing message.

The government forcing kids to drink extremely lowfat or skim milk at school looks all the world like the government support of the ethanol industry, bad policy based upon ignoring science and reason.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

You do realize that skim and lowfat milk also is lower in cholesterol right? No where does it now say that cholesterol is a good thing to be taken in high volume in ones diet. And I know cholesterol is still an important part of ones diet (necessary for skin and other cell wall function).

I'll ask it again because I know your distract a bit easy as you see conspiracies in everything: you do realize that skim and lowfat milk also is lower in cholesterol right?

2 Replies

I am becoming increasingly alarmed that for 4 decades the health minders have been allowed to tell us that we absolutely must cut way back on our fat intake when it appears that there was never a lick of science to support their claim. The results of the cutting of fat damn them as well, as the fat was replaced with carbs which certainly appears to have harmed our metabolisms (see surge in diabetes) and caused weight gain.

We are now seeing the same nonsense on cholesterol, an examination of the oft changing advice on what we need to eat compared with the science shows clearly that neither the scientists nor the minders have the first damn clue about how the body regulates blood cholesterol, or what the lab readings mean for our health.

0 Replies

@tsarstepan,

Quote:

I'll ask it again because I know your distract a bit easy as you see conspiracies in everything: you do realize that skim and lowfat milk also is lower in cholesterol right?

yes, and when or if science ever proves that intake of cholesterol is bad for me I might care.

1 Reply

@tsarstepan,

It seems that these studies call into question the cardiovascular risk of high fat dairy:

Quote:

RESULTS:

In 11 of 16 studies, high-fat dairy intake was inversely associated with measures of adiposity. Studies examining the relationship between high-fat dairy consumption and metabolic health reported either an inverse or no association. Studies investigating the connection between high-fat dairy intake and diabetes or cardiovascular disease incidence were inconsistent. We discuss factors that may have contributed to the variability between studies, including differences in (1) the potential for residual confounding; (2) the types of high-fat dairy foods consumed; and (3) bovine feeding practices (pasture- vs. grain-based) known to influence the composition of dairy fat.
CONCLUSIONS:

The observational evidence does not support the hypothesis that dairy fat or high-fat dairy foods contribute to obesity or cardiometabolic risk, and suggests that high-fat dairy consumption within typical dietary patterns is inversely associated with obesity risk. Although not conclusive, these findings may provide a rationale for future research into the bioactive properties of dairy fat and the impact of bovine feeding practices on the health effects of dairy fat.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

In other news there was recently a study which came to the conclusion that artery blockages are caused by the body trying to repair damaged arterys....how the damage happened and what effect blood cholesterol counts had on this damage repair going wrong they dont have the foggiest idea.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

We all know that so far as the body is concerned all carbs are sugar, correct? We consume fats, sugar and protein and trace nutrients. If we cut back on fat then we likely will consume more sugar and protein, though protein tends to be much more expensive so maybe just maybe we take more sugar. Large protein intakes have their own health problems as it is very hard on the liver so that is not a clear win either.

Maybe we should be sure that we need to change our diets before we go running around all over the place getting into peoples faces telling them that they absolutely must stop eating so much fat.

1 Reply

Meantime, I've gradually worked my way back from no-knead bread since last posting on this thread. Just managed to make a sourdough mixed wheat bread that came out with a perfect crumb and tasted rich and delicious - never succeeded with such a great crumb (texture) before. It involved using a biga (ital word for starter) that rests at room temp for 24 hours (ok as little as 3 hours, can go as long as 72 apparently, really sour by then) and then adding the biga to a fresh yeasted dough, and then two long rises ...... so, not exactly a lot of work, but takes good timing, hard for people who work a lot of hours. But gads that's good bread.

Aha - here's the recipe:
http://greedybread.com/bready-steadygo-to-umbria/

I used half the recipe in Fields' book (same recipe as this one I just found online), since I have no place to put four loaves, even though the bread stays fresh a long time.

0 Replies

How/why did bread and milk become "evil" foods?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know