Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 10:28 am
I certainly don't condon violence from a teacher to a student, on the other hand there are specific facts missing from this news item as well as the issue of maintaining order in the classroom.

Quote:
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- A substitute special ed math teacher is accused of yanking a student's sweatshirt. The incident happened at Jimmy Carter Middle school on Wednesday afternoon.

Student Isaac Foulenfont claims that the problem started when he tapped his hand on a desk and the substitute told him to stop.

"I did it again and she got mad, she got up and grabbed my hood and pulled it back hard," said Foulenfont.

Foulenfont has ADHA said he had a mark on his neck from where the teacher allegedly yanked his sweatshirt.

He told Action 7 News that several students watched it happened and someone reported it minutes later.

"They called security and they took me to the office," said Foulenfont.

Maria Foulenfont, the student's mother, said the principal called her right away and sounded upset. The parent admitted her child acts out but said nothing warrants a teacher getting physical.
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 10:30 am
@dyslexia,
I dunno. Sounds like bullshit to me. A mark on someone's neck, from a yanked sweatshirt?

Cycloptichorn
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 12:04 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I can believe it would leave a mark. Especially if it was pulled from the back or side. Lots of soft tissue on the neck.

That's why we
Karate chop
On the neck
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 12:32 pm
If the kid was really irritating me, I'd send him face-first into the corner, make him bend over and touch his toes, and stay there for the duration of the class.

He wouldn't be doing anymore tapping after that.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 12:36 pm
@dyslexia,
Quote:
Student Isaac Foulenfont claims that the problem started when he tapped his hand on a desk and the substitute told him to stop.

"I did it again and she got mad, she got up and grabbed my hood and pulled it back hard," said Foulenfont.

Punk.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 12:42 pm
@dyslexia,
Isn't the fact that the teacher was a substitute an important consideration? The kid's regular teacher probably had a safer strategy for dealing with ADHD behavior.
Irishk
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 12:44 pm
@wandeljw,
Safer strategy = patience.

Maybe.
tycoon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 12:52 pm
@Irishk,
Safer strategy=call in sick, let someone else deal with the turd.
aidan
 
  6  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 03:45 pm
@tycoon,
Another safe strategy - don't lay a hand on a student- foolproof - works every time.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 03:52 pm
@aidan,
I agree, it's not like physical confrontation is plan B. It seems like there were seemingly infinite alternatives available here.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 04:14 pm
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

Another safe strategy - don't lay a hand on a student- foolproof - works every time.


She didn't.

I think ADHD is just an excuse in a lot of cases .
Sounds like this punk was messing with her head.

Is this raising productive members of society?
Teaching people they can hide behind labels, and report, sue, make trouble for others for reacting in a human way?

I don't consider pulling on his hoodie out of bounds.
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 04:18 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
I don't consider pulling on his hoodie out of bounds.

That's fine as long as you don't expect to keep a job as a teacher in the public schools in the United States in this day and age.


Whether you think it's right or wrong is inconsequential - it is the way it is.
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 04:23 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

I think ADHD is just an excuse in a lot of cases .

I agree. Specifically, in this case that's probably true. Still not a green light for physical confrontation.

chai2 wrote:

Sounds like this punk was messing with her head.

Most definitely. Not a green light though.

chai2 wrote:

I don't consider pulling on his hoodie out of bounds.

We'll differ on opinion here. Why was physical contact used at all? If a student doesn't comply with directions after being repeatedly instructed, and if they are disrupting class, there are higher authorities the teacher can go to for handling this.

Additionally, I think we'd agree that a teacher pulling on the clothes of a student would be a bigger deal if the student was a female.

I just don't see it as appropriate.

T
K
O
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 04:32 pm
@Diest TKO,
Chai said:
Quote:
I think ADHD is just an excuse in a lot of cases .

and Diest responded:
Quote:
I agree. Specifically, in this case that's probably true

How the heck can you know this? I drum my fingers on the table all the time and it's because I play the piano - and I'm always picking out melodies in my head with my fingers on the table. I have a friend who plays the organ who does the same thing.

Whether you believe in ADHD or not - you don't touch anyone's kid. I was standing in line to sign out my child with other kids who were registering into school as late and I was wearing a cap because I didn't have time to wash my hair and because I was about the same size as the other adolescent girls this woman slapped me on the back of the head and told me to remove my hat. I looked at her like, 'What the ****?' and I said, 'Excuse me- I'm not a student - and anyway- do you always treat students with such disrespect?'

No - I don't want anyone touching or hitting my kids and I wouldn't touch or hit anyone else's child. And if I worked at a school where that was condoned in any way - I'd quit.

McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 04:32 pm

I think cheeky kids should be beaten black and blue. Makes a real impression on them.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 06:01 pm
No to touching the kids - that's just wrong - on many levels. Basically, though, they're not your kid and you have no right touching them whatsoever. I believe in many school districts you can't even hug a kid or pat them on the back for a job well done - now that's a very sad commentary on society. We've become a bunch of wingnuts, afraid of everything and ready to sue the world if you cross these new lines.

However, that being said, I agree with Chai that ADHD (substitute bi-polar, autistic, etc etc) is overused as an excuse. Now that it's been diagnosed, everybody's damn well got it. We had unruly kids in class and they were sent out of the room (to the principal's office) when necessary. Let him/her deal with the problem.

I don't care what condition they have - if they're disruptive, they're out of there. Mom can come in and help kid out if she wants. Why should 30 kids suffer because of the actions of 1? There's so much allowing and babying going on today - no wonder many kids are under-productive when they graduate - if they can even read and write, that is.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 06:28 pm
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

Chai said:
Quote:
I think ADHD is just an excuse in a lot of cases .

and Diest responded:
Quote:
I agree. Specifically, in this case that's probably true

How the heck can you know this?

It's my speculation based on the child admission that he did it again after he was told not to. You're right though, it could have been a simple habit.

aidan wrote:

Whether you believe in ADHD or not - you don't touch anyone's kid.

We're in agreement on this.

aidan wrote:

I was standing in line to sign out my child with other kids who were registering into school as late and I was wearing a cap because I didn't have time to wash my hair and because I was about the same size as the other adolescent girls this woman slapped me on the back of the head and told me to remove my hat. I looked at her like, 'What the ****?' and I said, 'Excuse me- I'm not a student - and anyway- do you always treat students with such disrespect?'

That would have got my blood hot. That would have been me in the principal's office having that teacher put in her place.

aidan wrote:

No - I don't want anyone touching or hitting my kids and I wouldn't touch or hit anyone else's child. And if I worked at a school where that was condoned in any way - I'd quit.

agreed.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 06:43 pm
Ah, memories of nuns pulling boys' hair.. the short hairs (back then) right near the temple. Oh, and quick ruler hits on fingers.

I think that was a dumb move by the teacher, though a natural reaction.
Dumb re the hands off culture in schools now, which I am mostly for, my only questions being about never consoling with a slight touch. And dumb in that there must be other ways, as TKO suggested, to handle this.

On the other hand, I have tremendous sympathy for people who want to teach, try hard to do that, and simply can't be 100% perfect.
I have some sympathy for the boy too. Testing, testing.. is also a natural instinct.

As dys suggested, there is probably a whole backstory to this, perhaps on both sides.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 07:52 pm
@ossobuco,
Both you and Dyslexia think that there is more to this story, Osso. Since both of you live in Albuquerque, you may hear more details on your local news.

Personally, I think everything can be explained by the facts in the brief news item. It was a "special ed" class (the students have various types of learning problems). Also, the teacher was a substitute teacher and therefore was not accustomed to the idiosyncrasies of the students.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 08:20 pm
@wandeljw,
I don't mean anything complicated by my surmise - just that the teacher's background might have not prepared her for this kind of thing, and the boy's background - well in his own family, he probably gets attention (or something) by this kind of testing.
0 Replies
 
 

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