Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2003 06:04 pm
mmmmmmmmmmm caramel apples.

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Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2003 06:40 pm
Good heavens, what a lot of apples! Three hundred varieties? Here are the main commercial varieties produced in Washington, a very short list:

Washington State Apple Facts
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Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2003 06:46 pm
Oh my. That is a short list.
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Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2003 07:52 pm
Here's the long list from the apple variety trials north of here. There seem to be a lot from France and from NY, as well as Great Britian.

WSU Apple Trials

Who would have thought there were five varieties of Gala? Or Braeburns? Rolling Eyes
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Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2003 12:26 am
Whooda thunkit?

The old English varieties have different names, mainly, from these; I don't recognise many.

I'll try to get a list, later. Off to breakfast now...no fruit, just cereal!
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Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2003 10:45 am
As American As Apple Pie: A Short Pie History
As American As Apple Pie: A Short Pie History
by John Lehndorff
American Pie Council

When you say that something is "as American as apple pie," what you're really saying is that the item came to this country from elsewhere and was transformed into a distinctly American experience.

"We may have taken (apple pie) to our hearts, but it is neither our invention nor even indigenous to our country. In fact, the apple pie predates our country's settlement by hundreds of years," writes Lee Edwards Benning in "Cook's Tales."

No one knows who ate the first slice, but pie in some form has been around since the ancient Egyptians made the first pastry-like crusts. The first pies were probably made by the early Romans who probably learned about it from the Greeks. The Roman, Cato the Censor, published the first written pie "receipt" or recipe: a rye-crusted, goat cheese and honey pie.

The Romans then spread the word around Europe including England. The Oxford English Dictionary notes that the word pie was "evidently a well-known popular word in 1362."

In 1475, the Italian writer Platina offered a recipe for a squash torta or pie hat concludes:

"Put this preparation in a greased pan or in a pastry shell and cook it over a slow fire. ... When it is cooked, set on a plate, sprinkle it with sugar and rosewater."

More often than not, the early pies were main dish meat pies. Fruit pies or tarts ("pasties") were probably first made in the 1500s. English tradition credits Queen Elizabeth I with making the first cherry pie but it's unlikely that Her Highness actually spent much time in the kitchen. In Tudor and Stuart times, English pies were made with pears and quinces as often as with apples."Thy breath is like the steame of apple-pyes," wrote Robert Greene in "Arcadia" in 1590.

Prior to this time many "pyes" or pies were crustless, being simply hollowed out pumpkins filled with mincemeat (which was mostly meat), baked in ashes and served in wedges.

Pie came to America with the first English settlers but chances are Christopher Columbus knew of his native dish "pizza" which is Italian for "pie." The early colonists cooked their pies in long narrow pans called "coffins." The early crusts were frequently inedible and tough designed more to hold the filling together during baking than to be actually eaten.

"If one were to conduct a survey of Americans to determine the typical American pie, chances are it would be a large, deep-dish, two-crusted affair, which is actually a combination of two European pies: the tartlet and the savoury," writes Lee Edwards Benning.

If the food-loving Pennsylvania Dutch people didn't invent pie, they certainly perfected it. Evan Jones in "American Food The Gastronomic Story" writes:

"Some social chroniclers seem convinced that fruit pies as Americans now know them were invented by the Pennsylvania Dutch. Potters in the southeastern counties of the state were making pie plates in the early eighteenth century, and cooks had begun to envelop with crisp crusts every fruit that grew in the region. 'It may be,' Frederick Klees asserts, 'that during the Revolution men from the other colonies came to know this dish in Pennsylvania and carried this knowledge back home to establish pie as the great American dessert.' "

"I was happy to find my old friend, mince pie, in the retinue of the feast" wrote Washington Irving in 1820.

Pies became a common part of American life. A Vermont housewife, itemizing her baking for the year 1877, counted 152 cakes, 421 pies and 2,140 doughnuts.

In 1878, Mark Twain made up a menu of American foods he missed in Europe for "A Tramp Abroad" which concludes "Apple pie ... Peach pie. American mince pie. Pumpkin pie. Squash pie. All sorts of American pastry."

Every cook knew how to make them. "One of the things noticeable about early pie recipes is their lack of detail; it was assumed that any cook who knew her way around a kitchen could put together a pie" writes Richard Sax in "Classic Home Desserts."

Although modern Americans don't eat pie for breakfast - although we might LIKE to - pie remains a favorite, whether apple, cherry, mince, pecan, chess, lemon meringue, pumpkin or a myriad of others.

"Cakes, pies and sweet puddings have remained the most popular American desserts. They gained popularity because they pleased the palate but also because they satisfied voracious hunger and provided energy for hardworking people," writes Evan Jones.
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Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2003 11:05 am
American Pie Council's 1999 Apple Pie contest winner
This is the 1999 American Pie Council's National Pie Championship first place winner in the Apple Pie Category.

Prep Time: 30 Minutes
Cook Time: 1 Hour
Ready in: 1 Hour 30 Minutes

Makes 1 - 9 inch pie pan

* 3 transparent apples - peeled, cored and sliced
3 Granny Smith apples - peeled, cored and sliced
1/3 cup white sugar
1/4 cup all-purpose flour
1/4 teaspoon ground cinnamon
2 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon salt
2/3 cup shortening
3 tablespoons butter
1/4 cup cold water
1 tablespoon half-and-half
1 teaspoon white sugar

* Transparent apples are a type of green apple, and are not always readily available. In that case, Granny Smith apples may be used for all six apples. "

Place apple slices into a large bowl. In a small bowl, mix together 1/4 cup flour, 1/3 cup sugar, and cinnamon, and then sprinkle over apples. Cover, and let sit overnight in refrigerator.

When you are ready to make the pie, begin by making the pastry. In a large bowl, mix together 2 cups flour and salt. Cut in the shortening and 2 tablespoons butter until the mixture is the consistency of cornmeal. Make a well in the center of the mixture, and add cold water. Stir together to form a ball. Let rest 20 minutes.

Roll out dough, and place in pie pan. Spread apple mixture into the pastry lined pan, and dot with 1 tablespoon butter. Cover with top crust, and seal the edges. Cut a few slits in the top to allow steam to escape. Using a pastry brush, lightly brush half-and-half over the top crust. Sprinkle with 1 teaspoon sugar.

Bake in a preheated 400 degrees F (205 degrees C) for 10 minutes. Turn oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). Continue cooking for 30 to 40 minutes, or until crust is golden brown.
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Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2003 11:23 am
A Berry Rhubarb pie for Jim
Jim, you said your favorite pie was rhubarb. I thought you might enjoy the following Berry Rhubarb pie recipe. BBB

This pie won First Place in the Fruit and Berry Category at the American Pie Council's 2000 National Pie Championship.

1 cup fresh blackberries
1 cup raspberries
2 cups rhubarb, cut into 1/2 inch pieces
3/4 cup white sugar
1/4 cup all-purpose flour
2 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon salt
2/3 cup shortening
2 tablespoons butter
4 tablespoons ice water
1 tablespoon butter, melted
1 teaspoon lemon juice
1 1/2 tablespoons half-and-half cream
2 tablespoons white sugar

To Make Filling: In a medium bowl, combine blackberries, raspberries, and rhubarb. In a separate bowl, mix together 3/4 cup sugar and 1/4 cup flour. Sprinkle over fruit mixture and stir gently. Cover bowl and refrigerate overnight.

To Make Crust: In a large bowl, mix 2 cups flour with salt. Cut in shortening and 2 tablespoons butter until texture is like coarse cornmeal. Place 1/3 of mixture in a separate bowl. To the smaller portion, add water and mix to form a paste. Add this mixture back to the rest of flour mixture and stir just until dough forms a ball. Allow to rest at least 20 minutes before rolling out. Divide dough in half. Roll out bottom crust and place in 9 inch pie pan.

Preheat oven to 400 degrees F (200 degrees C).

Mix 1 tablespoon melted butter and lemon juice into fruit filling, then spoon into pastry-lined pie pan. Roll out top crust and place over filling. Crimp edges and cut steam vents in top. Brush lightly with half and half and sprinkle lightly with sugar.

Bake in preheated oven for 10 minutes. Reduce temperature to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C) and bake an additional 40 to 50 minutes, until crust is golden brown.
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Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2003 11:30 am
Quick Caramel Apple Pie
Quick Caramel Apple Pie

This is the second place winner in the Quick and Easy Category of the 1999 American Pie Council 's National Pie Championship. Use any kind of prepared pie crust you like.

2 (9-inch) unbaked pie shells
5 large tart apples, cored and sliced
4 tablespoons all-purpose flour
1/3 cup packed brown sugar
1 cup fat free caramel dip

Preheat oven to 375 degrees F (190 degrees C).

Mix 2 tablespoons flour and brown sugar together. Toss sugar and flour with apples.

Sprinkle one tablespoon flour on bottom crust, roll lightly to fit a 9 or 10 inch pie pan. Arrange apples in the bottom crust, and spread caramel sauce over apples. Roll out second crust with the rest of the flour. Lay over apples. Tuck over bottom crust and pinch edges together. Cut a few steam holes in top of pie.

Bake for 40 to 45 minutes or until golden brown. Let cool before serving.
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Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2003 12:05 pm
A Caramel Pecan pie for Heeven
Heeven, you said pecan pie was your favorite. I don't like the customary sticky sweet pecan pies most people make. The following is my favorite pecan pie recipe - BBB

Adapted by BumbleBeeBoogie from a recipe provided by the chef of the Ye Olde Hoosier Inn in Stockton, California. This pie is quite different from the traditional southern pecan pie. It is my favorite.

2 tablespoons butter
¾ cup granulated brown sugar
2 large eggs, unbeaten
1 cup canned evaporated milk, (not condensed)
3 tablespoons flour, sifted
¼ teaspoon salt
3 tablespoons granulated white sugar
½ teaspoon vanilla extract
½ to ¾ cup broken pecan pieces

In a large bowl, cream together the butter, brown sugar and eggs; add the milk and thoroughly blend.

Sift the flour into a small bowl and combine with the salt and white sugar. Add to the egg-milk mixture. Stir in the vanilla.

Prepare your favorite pie crust and line a 9-inch pie pan with the pastry. Pour the filling into the pastry shell. Sprinkle the pecan pieces evenly over the top of the filling.

Preheat the oven at 350 degrees F. Place the pie on the middle shelf of the oven. Place a cookie sheet or a sheet of foil on the bottom of the oven to catch any spills. Bake for 45 minutes. Remove the pie from the oven and cool to room temperature before serving.

This pie is very rich, but if you prefer a topping: whip ½ pint of heavy whipping cream until stiff. Add 2 tablespoons of brown sugar and blend. A delicious alternative topping is to add brown sugar to sour cream.
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Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2003 12:09 pm
All you ever wanted to know about English apple varieties, but were afraid to ask, is contained on this webpage and its home page.

Happy crunching


or this one, even better

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Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2003 10:43 am
Hey did anyone look at these lists of apple types, or in posting them was I barking up the wrong tree? Did your interest crumble? Were you bored to the core? Did they not appeel to you, even taken in segments? Was it puree torture? Or is there a seed of something there, which can blossom later and come to fruition?

Waiting for the football/ soccer scores, McT
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Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2003 12:05 pm
truthfully, i'm just off to go shopping - and get some apples!
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Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2003 04:23 pm
the apple crumb recipe is excellent.
BBB knows his(her) stuff
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Reply Sat 8 Nov, 2003 09:38 am
Well we're going down to Sainsbury's now and I might well buy some pie I can bring back and heat up to have after tea.
I do like a nice piece of pie. Followed by another. We can get a very good ready-made custard to go with it. I think that decision is made- I've talked myself into it. Apple pie with custard.
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Reply Sat 8 Nov, 2003 10:09 am
McTag wrote:
Hey did anyone look at these lists of apple types, or in posting them was I barking up the wrong tree? Did your interest crumble? Were you bored to the core? Did they not appeel to you, even taken in segments? Was it puree torture? Or is there a seed of something there, which can blossom later and come to fruition?

Waiting for the football/ soccer scores, McT

Oh gosh, I did miss all these pips. Thanks espalier-ly for the puns, y'know, I love 'em. :wink: It was a veritable harvest of sweets!

I'm going to be looking at all these recipes and cherishing all the apple info. HOWEVER... custard? Custard??? What about vanilla ice cream with cinnamon sauce?
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Reply Sat 8 Nov, 2003 10:42 am
can you recite a pome?
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Reply Sat 8 Nov, 2003 11:23 am

Brother, that breathe the August air
Ten thousand years from now,
And smell--if still your orchards bear
Tart apples on the bough--

The early windfall under the tree,
And see the red fruit shine,
I cannot think your thoughts* will be
Much different from mine.

Should at that moment the full moon
Step forth upon the hill,
And memories hard to bear at noon,
By moonlight harder still,
Form in the shadow of the trees, --
Things that you could not spare
And live, or so you thought, yet these
All gone, and you still there,

A man no longer what he was,
Nor yet the thing he'd planned,
The chilly apple from the grass
Warmed by your living hand--

I think you will have need of tears;
I think they will not flow;
Supposing in ten thousand years
Men ache, as they do now.


*Where's the pie?
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Reply Sat 8 Nov, 2003 11:28 am
Pome fruit
Farmerman asked for a poem about pome:

I was in my chilly back yard planting a pome
when I was interrupted by a ringing phone;
twas my son reminding me to waste no time
if I intend to grow lucious fruit devine.

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Reply Sat 8 Nov, 2003 11:45 am
Apple Crop Improving but Growers Continue to Struggle
Nov 8, 2003
WEEKLY FARM: Apple Crop Improving but Growers Continue to Struggle
By Emily Gersema
Associated Press Writer

BIGLERVILLE, Pa. (AP) - The sweet smell of ripe fruit hangs like a mist over this town just north of Gettysburg, where acres and acres of apple orchards thickly line the hills along Highway 34. The leaves on the apple trees have turned a rusty brown - a sign the harvest has ended, and a warning of the coming winter.

No one could tell from looking at the trees and the bountiful display at Hollabaugh Bros. Fruit Farms & Market that many apple growers are struggling. Apples of every sort - Yorks, Spencers, Red Winesaps, Fujis and Galas - are piled high in oak crates and boxes next to the tiny store. The bushels of fruit are the picture of health, their cheeks varying in shade from shiny rose and pale green to wine red.

As Brad Hollabaugh surveys the crates, the lines around his light blue eyes crease with worry. He may break even. He may be in the red. It is the same for him every year.

"It just hasn't been easy," he says, sighing. "The inputs equal the outputs."

To be able to pass on the farm, inherited from his father and uncle, to his 23-year-old son, Hollabaugh needs to turn a profit. He refuses to talk about how much money he spends and makes every year, only that "we don't pay income taxes. We don't make enough money to do that."

Hollabaugh and many other growers sell much of their apple crop to be made into items such as sauce, juice, apple butter and pie filling. They blame foreign competition, especially from China, for the weak market.

Jim Cranney, vice president of the U.S. Apple Association, says imports fell hard on the market in the late 1980s and 1990s, pushing farm prices off the edge.

"In order for U.S. apple growers to compete with the low-priced concentrate from China, they had to sell their apples even cheaper," he says. "We found ourselves in a situation where we had growing supply with larger crops."

Also, as supermarket chains merged during that period, they gained control over prices, Cranney says. This left the growers, who do not get government subsidies to support them through bad times, in dire straits.

In fall of 2000, Congress came up with an $150 million bailout for the apple industry. But growers continue to struggle, Cranney says.

Thirty-six percent of the 9.3 billion pounds of apples that U.S. farmers produce this year will be processed. The crop is 8 percent larger than last year's but is the smallest since 1988. Several apple growers have bulldozed trees and others have gone out of business over the past 20 years because prices are so low.

Farmers selling apples to processors have gotten as little as 10 cents a pound for their crops over the past three years, and that does not come close to covering growers' costs.

Susan Pollack, an Agriculture Department economist, says China and other competitors - Argentina, Chile and Germany - can produce apples for juice and sell it for far less than American growers, so U.S. processors are buying most of their juice from abroad.

The United States imported 96 million gallons of apple juice last year, 27 percent from China, department figures show.

Imports account for 97 percent of the juice sold to Americans. Almost all fresh apples on the U.S. market, on the other hand, come from American orchards.

Americans consumers and their changing tastes also account for some of the weakness in the apple market. Americans now consume on average 43 pounds of apples - including juice and sauce - every year, compared with 49 pounds in 1994.

Pollack says consumers are finicky when it comes to fresh apples. U.S. farmers grow over 2,500 varieties, but 15 of them account for 90 percent of the crop.

Although Red Delicious remains the top seller, the new favorite varieties are Fujis and Galas. Farmers adjust accordingly, uprooting less popular varieties and replacing theme with trees that bear the latest fads.

Cranney says growers are betting that the Honey Crisp apple - a fruit whose color looks like a scarlet blush - will be the next most popular variety.

"As you see a lot of regular consumer marketing companies, you would notice that there's a lot more selection in terms of brands and varieties of say, toothpaste," he says. "Apple growers are really no different than any other businessmen."

On the Net:

Agriculture Department's Economic Research Service: http://www.ers.usda.gov

U.S. Apple Association: http://www.usapple.org

This story can be found at: http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA0ZBNQRMD.html
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