15
   

FREEDOM IS RESTORED: 1st AMENDMENT WINS!

 
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 06:30 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Occom Bill wrote:
Better yet: See Plessy v. Ferguson


Or Korematsu v. United States, justifying the imprisonment of over 100,000 innocent Japanese-Americans without due process of law -- indeed, without any process of law. Since nearly all reasonable people now consider this case a low point in the Supreme Court's history, it should arguably have been purged long ago. But far from it: Under stare decisis, the greater part of the case continues to be good law, and continues to be cited as an authority.

Stare Decisis is a policy, not a religion. And that's a good thing, too.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 06:34 pm
Stare Decisis is a fancy name for keeping what is agreed and changing what has ceased to be agreed.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 08:22 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
This isn't a valid criticism. The Supreme Court is not bound by Stare Decisis
I didnt say it was. However, the two newest members , one of which is the Supreme Supreme, both gave really long and believable bullshit answers about Stare decisis. They were questioned primarlly (I assume) re Roe v wade, but their credibility in honoring ceratin decisions has been shot smartly in the ass.

This decision is one that sets the road clear for corporate hegemony.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 09:42 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
not OK for 60 nanoseconds.


May I just say, I'm enjoying your enthusiasm. Smile

Thank u, K; I get my libertarian Individualist anti-censorship thrills
from CITIZENS UNITED.

WELCOME to the forum!
If u 'd like us to know about u, its possible
to fill out something in the profile area.

By clicking on someone 's name or avatar,
u go to that area.

I hope that u will enjoy A2K!





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 09:46 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
The rich bought votes in ancient Rome and the republic folded.
Yeah, surely that was the reason.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 09:52 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
OCCOM BILL wrote:
farmerman wrote:

My feelings about these two guys was from their appointment hearings in fron to the Senate Subcommittee. They both swore up and down to honor the concept of Stare decisis, which established precedent of previous USSC decisions. These two can understand that this decision, too, can be overturned in the future.
This isn't a valid criticism. The Supreme Court is not bound by Stare Decisis. And we should all be grateful for that.
See Dred Scott if you need help understanding why.
Dred Scott is not good law because of the 13th Amendment.
Before then, the court was bound by Article 4 Section 2 of the Constitution.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 10:17 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
ACTUALLY, Freedom has not been restored, since an OLIGARCHIC FASCIST
interpretation of the 1st Amendment has been forwarded by this decision.
By THIS reasoning, during 1941 thru 1945, we were fascists
(I wonder how Benito Mussolini felt about that? I wonder what George Patton thought about that?)
and indeed we were fascists from the foundation of the Republic until rescued from fascism by John McCain in 2002.

I don 't think so.





David
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 10:49 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
WELCOME to the forum!


Thank you! Smile
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 12:46 am
Quote:
In a devastating decision, the high court cleared the way for one of those corporate takeovers you read about, only much bigger. If Exxon wants to spend $1 million (a bar tab for Big Oil) defeating an environmentalist running for city council, it can now do so. If Goldman Sachs wants to pay the entire cost of every congressional campaign in the U.S., the law of the land now allows it. The decision frees unions, too, but they already spend about as much as they can on politics. Fortune 100 firms currently spend only a fraction of 1 percent of their $605 billion in annual profits on buying politicians.


This didn't have to happen. The court was asked to rule on whether the Federal Election Commission had the right to regulate a corporate-backed outfit called Citizens United that made the conservative film Hillary: The Movie. But instead of ruling narrowly, the Roberts Court"in a new standard for judicial hypocrisy"struck down the laws of 22 states and the federal government.

So it's on. The Citizens United case is the Roe v. Wade of the 21st century, only the roles are reversed. Conservatives who bashed liberal judges for "legislating from the bench" and disrespecting precedent are now exposed as unprincipled poseurs. Liberals who grew up depending on courts to protect the public interest must now build a mass movement to confront the greatest accumulation of corporate power since the age of the robber barons.
.
.
.
Until one of these hypocrites retires, we can't expect the judiciary to protect average citizens from the power of big money. "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations," Thomas Jefferson wrote, in a line that Antonin Scalia and others who claim to be guided by the Founders ignore. Jefferson was too hard on corporations, which create wealth and employ people (though the vast majority work for small businesses). But for 100 years, the Supreme Court ruled that our Constitution permitted restraints on concentrated power. Today's Roberts Court Radicals don't believe in restraint, especially when it comes to themselves.


http://www.newsweek.com/id/232147
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 12:59 am
@hawkeye10,
If the court had ruled the other way, it woud have proven
that we have no Constitution, no limits on government power,
only a wisp of a hope of freedom.

If the First Amendment were not safe,
then surely NO part of the Constitution was safe.

There woud have been no reason to salute the Flag anymore.
Now, THANKFULLY, we r back to where we were before 2002.





David
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 01:02 am
@OmSigDAVID,
isn't it amazing how many commentators disagree with you?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 01:09 am
Quote:
Washington " Thursday was a bad day for democracy. The Supreme Court’s decision in Citizens United v. the Federal Election Commission paves the way for unlimited corporate and union spending in elections, and the drowning out of the average citizen’s voice in our public policy debates. In other words, the court has made a bad situation worse by enhancing the ability of the deepest-pocketed special interests to influence elections and the US Congress.

In its 5-to-4 decision, the Roberts Court declares outright that corporate expenditures cannot corrupt elected officials, that influence over lawmakers is not corruption, and that appearance of influence will not undermine public faith in our democracy. These are unsubstantiated claims that will change the ground rules of American democracy.

As Justice John Paul Stevens wrote in his dissent, “the court’s opinion is thus a rejection of the common sense of the American people, who have recognized a need to prevent corporations from undermining self government since the founding, and who have fought against the distinctive corrupting potential of corporate electioneering since the days of Theodore Roosevelt.”

Justice Stevens explained that corporations are not themselves members of “We the People” by whom and for whom our Constitution was established. He lamented that the court used “a sledgehammer rather than a scalpel” when it struck down one of Congress’s most significant efforts to regulate the role that corporations and unions play in electoral politics. Stevens added that the court negated Congress’s efforts “without a shred of evidence.”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100122/cm_csm/275358
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 01:15 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
isn't it amazing how many commentators disagree with you?
Its NOT; its fun to have the liberals in a tizzy.

Liberalism is distortion; liberalism is fraud.
In this case liberalism was a 4 way rape of the Bill of Rights.

THE RAPIST (JOHN McCAIN) WAS DEFEATED !!!

Liberals r very, very bad people.
Thay 'd be happier in North Korea; not much free speech there.





David
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 01:21 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Freedom of the people from despotism, to include from the tyranny of an unhinged Supreme court, is not the provenance of Liberalism. It is the most profound essence of what America stands for, all of America.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 01:42 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Freedom of the people from despotism, to include from the tyranny of an unhinged Supreme court,
is not the provenance of Liberalism. [The liberalism was McCain's devilry.]
When government THREATS of imprisonment for exercising free speech
are overthown, that is restoral of FREEDOM, not "tyranny" as u say in error.

U turned it around backward, but u lose and I win,
so I don 't care about your distortions.

MULTIPLE BE THE CHUCKLES !





David
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 01:53 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Free speech IS important, but the integrity of the process is so much more important . The Supreme Court has usurped its authority, and while in this case the wayward Court has done so claiming its desire to promote free speech in actuality it has done so to trample on the citizens of this nations right to self determination.

Get your priorities straight and/or learn to see beyond the 1984 flavored doublespeak that this Supreme Court flings.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 03:19 am
@hawkeye10,
The good guys won; Freedom won. That 's what 's important,
not liberal whining, but this is instructive, sadly so, as to whether
it is possible to reason with liberals
. Their loyalty is to distortion
and lies. The opposite of truth.

Here we see that Hawkeye attributes to ME,
and/or to the good guys on the USSC (those who just play it straight),
the errors of which the liberals r guilty.
Representing the leftist position, he rotates truth
around backward 180˚
and aims the twisted accusation at ME.

This is like a mugger complaining that his victim is the bad guy.

EITHER, Hawkeye does not know, or does not CARE
that if Congress can USURP power to ban free speech
for a corporation, it can do so for a living man; the precedent is established.
If Congress, or your county legislature, or your local sewer district,
can ban free speech for 60 days, it can do so forever.
As a freedom-loving hedonist, I care about that a lot.

hawkeye10 wrote:
Free speech IS important, but the integrity of the process is so much more important.
No. Freedom of speech is non-negotiable,
in that this is put beyond the reach of government in America,
just like a citizen 's right to gun possession.
The integrity of the process is far, far, far, below
freedom of speech on the totem pole. It was just fine before John McCain was around.



Congress usurped authority to stop free speech
and the USSC correctly refused to join in a conspiracy
to sodomize the Constitution and established precedent
to rescue the victim. The USSC knows that it has no authority
to enforce an unconstitutional statute, such as the McCane-Feingold law,
to which I shall hereafter refer as the MF law, for brevity.
FORTUNATELY, the MF law itself only brief in its endurance.

hawkeye10 wrote:
The Supreme Court has usurped its authority, and while in this case the wayward Court has
done so claiming its desire to promote free speech in actuality it has done so to trample
on the citizens of this nations right to self determination.

Get your priorities straight and/or learn to see beyond the 1984 flavored doublespeak that this Supreme Court flings.
GOOD GUYS WIN: BAD GUYS LOSE HELLER and CITIZENS UNITED.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 05:32 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Free speech IS important, but the integrity of the process is so much more important .
The Supreme Court has usurped its authority, and while in this
case the wayward Court has done so claiming its desire to promote free speech
in actuality it has done so to trample on the citizens of this nations right to self determination.

Get your priorities straight and/or learn to see beyond the 1984 flavored doublespeak that this Supreme Court flings.
It is very, very scary to note that Hawkeye, on behalf of liberals,
alleges that the integrity of the system is MORE important
than FREEDOM of SPEECH, and he proceeds to claim that
the USSC MUST subordinate freedom of speech
to the integrity of the system in order to avoid USURPING its authority.

By taking this position, Hawkeye (on behalf of the liberals)
indicates that it is OK to violate the Constitution, whenever it
claims that there is a good reason (or maybe just an ordinary reason?) to do so
.
(I wonder how well Hawkeye liked the Reichstag fire)

He thereby denies that ANY of our Constitutional freedom is
safe from the chopping block, if Congress or the USSC feels like chopping it.
In other words:
NOTHING is beyond the reach of government power,
if a reason is alleged to justify the rape of the Constitution.

I suspect that Hawkeye does not know that he has advocated
taking ALL of the limits off of government, like taking all of the chains
off of the Frankenstein monster, on his slab in the lab
and just let the damned government run free to do whatever it wants, abandoning ALL Constitutional restraints.





David
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 07:36 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I repeat, the only way to use this decision is to find out WHO is paying for a candidate and who a candidate is shilling for. When that is determined and the candidates own platform is under scrutiny (by virtue of his "sponsors") we can vote aginst them.

Its no longer one man one vote by any means, since he oligarchs grow in power, money is a huge substitute for "free speech".
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 08:01 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
I repeat, the only way to use this decision is to find out WHO is paying for a candidate and who a candidate is shilling for. When that is determined and the candidates own platform is under scrutiny (by virtue of his "sponsors") we can vote aginst them.

Its no longer one man one vote by any means, since he oligarchs grow in power, money is a huge substitute for "free speech".

What I care about is that the egregious USURPATION,
overthrowing the Bill of Right has been frustrated and defeated, tho it took too long.
Everything was OK before McCain came along
and made trouble.

"What once was ours, is ours once AGAIN.
It shall not be taken FROM us."



David
 

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