Baby Talk

The Australian Broadcasting Corporation's science show, catalyst, had a fascinating report on some research into communication between babies - here is a transcript - it is rather sad without the fascinating video - but there you are!

What do you think?

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s973698.htm#transcript




Baby Talk
Thursday, 23 October 2003



Long before they can talk, babies may look like they?re lost in little worlds of their own. But is there a lot more going on inside those tiny minds than anyone ever thought? That?s certainly what child psychologist Jane Selby now believes. In a groundbreaking experiment, Selby claims to have found the keys to unlocking Baby Talk. It?s controversial, and the potential implications range from how we socialise babies, to whether we should send them to the baby psychiatrist. More importantly - you won?t believe what Selby says these babies are talking about! (full transcript...)

Reporter: Jonica Newby
Producer: Paul Schneller
Researcher: Caroline Penry-Davey


Story Contacts:
Dr Jane Selby Email
Child Psychologist
Charles Sturt University
Bathurst Campus
Ph: +61 2 6338 4210
Fax: +61 2 6338 4401
[email protected]

Assoc Prof Campbell Paul
Child Psychiatrist
Royal Children?s Hospital
Melbourne
Flemington Rd
Parkville, Victoria, 3052P
Ph: +61 3 9345 5522



Related Sites:

Charles Sturt University (CSU)
Royal Children?s Hospital (RCH)


Full Program Transcript:
Narration: These seven month old babies may look like they?re lost in little worlds of their own. But are they in fact deep in conversation? Well, despite the scepticism of her colleagues, that?s what researcher Jane Selby now believes.

Dr Jane Selby, Child Psychologist: People can be cynical, but then they have to be cynical after they've read the papers and after they've looked at the tapes.

Narration: So are these babies really communicating? Because if she?s right, it could strike to the heart of how we?re raising babies in the 21st century. The idea babies as young as seven months can communicate with one another is very controversial to most experts.

Assoc Prof Campbell Paul, Child Psychiatrist : Well in the developmental psychology literature, people were very sceptical because babies don?t speak, they don?t have words, we can?t know exactly what?s going on in their minds.

Narration: Part of the problem is that baby communication has proven really difficult to study. But then, along came psychologist Jane Selby, with a background perfect for the job.

Dr Jane Selby: When I was an undergraduate I worked with mothers and babies together. And that came from an interest in animal behaviour, and in particular the methodology of studying animals, which is observational.

Narration: Jane decided to use her animal behaviour training to settle the controversy once and for all. So she built the world?s first baby talk laboratory. So here are the babies. She was determined to find out whether babies that couldn?t even crawl, could in fact communicate.

Dr Jane Selby: What we are going to do is go next door into the laboratory room, put the babies in the strollers and without a big fuss, just walk out slowly into the next room.

Narration: Believe it or not, this is the first time babies have been studied like this without adults present. All strapped in and ready to go. Will these babies find a way to communicate? And if so, what will they communicate about?

Dr Jane Selby: So you just have to watch carefully now. It's a bit like wildlife. They're not going to, it's not an experiment where you have an instant result.

Narration: Like a wildlife watcher, Jane is trying to work out if there?s a pattern to the movements of the eyes, the mouth, and especially the feet.

Dr Jane Selby: At this age, the feet are as communicative as the hands are. So we gesture quite a lot when we talk. But babies they do a lot of that with their feet.

Narration: Despite the advice, all I see is babies playing. But Jane is looking for an entire conversation.

Jonica Newby, Reporter: : Was that an exciting moment.

Dr Jane Selby: I think it might have been an exciting moment then. It's like the punch line at the end of the joke.

Jonica Newby: You do have to read rather a lot in to it, don't you?

Dr Jane Selby: You do.

Jonica Newby: Are you sure you're not just making it up?

Dr Jane Selby: I think sometimes I am making it up. You heard it first on national television - But then what I do then is go back to it and say did I really see that?

Narration: That?s when the real work begins - once the recording session is over. Jane has evaluated dozens of these sessions, statistically analysing every little foot twiddle or grimace. And one session in particular convinced her that babies really are communicating - to a level that, according to accepted wisdom, simply shouldn?t be possible. Meet Joe, Anne in the red cap, and Mona. One boy. Two girls.

Dr Jane Selby: Now they've been together now for about four or five, well just under seven minutes actually. And it's been really interesting because this person Joe is the centre of attention.

Narration: As the minutes go by, Jane believes Anne is taking more and more of a shine to Joe.

Dr Jane Selby: Now Anne is quite quick to realise that his foot is there and she can make contact as she has been trying to. Meanwhile he doesn't look terribly interested. He's more interested to look around the room generally and explore things.

Narration: Mona, meanwhile, is watching both of them. At 11 minutes, she tries to touch Anne with her foot.

Dr Jane Selby: When she did actually manage to catch Anne?s foot a couple of times, Anne withdrew her foot so as to stay away from Mona while she kept involved with Joe - a bit like an eternal triangle, you know, who?s in, who?s out.

Narration: A few seconds later, it reaches crisis point. According to Jane, Anne now turns to sneer at Mona.

Jonica Newby: Look at that.

Dr Jane Selby: Looks like she?s giving him the finger. I?ve got him.

Narration: Back to Jo.

Dr Jane Selby: But look at him. He says look, hang on, it?s alright I like you too.

Narration: And look at her. She doesn?t like Jo being nice to Mona at all.

Jonica Newby: Straight out of Home and Away, really.

Dr Jane Selby: It looks like it, doesn?t it, yeah.

Narration: To Jane, It seems baby talk is all about relationships.

Dr Jane Selby: Oh they've really surprised me. Complexities like being jealous or wanting to be nice to someone else, being kind, being a bit mean. It's just sort of all humanness, it's all there, already, right from the start.

Narration: And according to at least one supporter, Jane?s is a significant insight. Dr Campbell Paul is a psychiatrist specialising in babies.

Assoc. Prof. Campbell Paul: It?s a very elegant work and demonstrates even to the most reluctant cynic that babies do communicate in a very powerful way right from early on.

Narration: But to Campbell, the implications go much further.

Assoc Prof Campbell Paul: Come through here Jonica and I?ll show you a video.

Narration: He?s convinced not only can tiny babies communicate, they can profoundly influence each other?s mental health.

Assoc Prof Campbell Paul: This little boy, this is his first day in the group and as you might see he?s very flat and floppy and its as if he?s very depressed and disengaged. And his playmate here is very perturbed by this. And you? she?s looking to the adults to see what?s going on. More here and you can see how she?s reaching out to touch him again? she doesn?t give up.

Narration: But one week later, there?s been a transformation. James is sitting upright. He?s engaging in eye contact. And Campbell is certain this dramatic change was brought about by the little girl.

Assoc Prof Campbell Paul: A lot of things happen in the course of a week but we think the trajectory started when this little girl was desperate to bring him to life.

Narration: So if Campbell and Jane are right, and babies are communicating with each other from such an early age, what are the implications for how we raise very young babies?

Dr Jane Selby: I think that we're still very much in a culture where we think that the crucial backbone of the baby's life is to be in a house with one adult, the mother, all day by themselves. And I think that this work, I think helps to make us just question that

Narration: And maybe what we're about is saying that we're depriving them if we don't let them be with other babies their age or a little bit older

Jonica Newby: They need their own kind?

Dr Jane Selby: They need their own kind, yes.

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