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Russian Leaders On Tax

 
 
Scrat
 
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 03:04 pm
I just received this. Sounds like old-guard soviets are able to certain economic realities that American Democrats cannot...

(Bold Mine)
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The Hill
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

The Right View
By David Keene

Russian leaders on tax

The new Russia is turning into quite a place. Russian President Vladimir Putin may be a former KGB apparatchik and he may sometimes act more like a czar than the head of an emerging democratic state, but he and those around him are an interesting bunch.

Thus, while policymakers in this country have been struggling for years over the question of how we might reform and simplify the tax code, Putin's government looked the question in the eye and opted for a 13 percent flat tax. The results since its implementation have been dramatic. The Russian economy, in spite of all the problems it faces, is growing faster than any in Europe. What's more, tax revenues are up so markedly that the Kremlin seems to be seriously considering lowering what already is Europe's lowest marginal rate even further.

This is good news for Russia and, ultimately, for the rest of us because a successful, stable and sensible Russia can offset the goofy thinking that dominates the leadership of old Europe. Indeed, it is entirely possible that Putin and his successors will ultimately prove Alexis de Tocqueville's observation that America's natural continental ally across the Atlantic is Moscow rather than Paris or Berlin. Lenin and his buddies made that observation seem a bit silly to many of us for a long time, but they are gone and it doesn't seem quite as silly anymore.

This became a little clearer earlier this month with the announcement that the Putin government has, after several years of study, decided that the Kyoto treaty isn't all it's cracked up to be. Putin didn't flat out say that Russia was ready yet to scuttle the U.N. Convention on Climate Change for all time, but he questioned the "science" underlying the treaty. That is more than our own president has managed to do.

Global-warming warriors were, of course, shocked. They had fully expected Putin to announce that Moscow would join in ratifying a treaty that the politically correct Europeans believe no rational human could oppose for any reason. The relative importance they give the Kyoto treaty was brought home to me at a European Union (EU)-sponsored conference I attended earlier this year. The keynote speaker told the audience that in his view "the earth faces three crises: global warming, HIV/AIDS and George W. Bush."

In their view, Putin has gone over to the dark side in questioning the wisdom of the politically correct on Kyoto. Indeed, following the Russian announcement, EU officials suggested that Russia would pay a "high price" for siding with the United States on so important a question. Others claimed that Putin's position was but an attempt to blackmail Europe into giving his country money in exchange for its support of Kyoto.

This is consistent with the old European view that anyone who disagrees with Brussels is a fool, an agent of the hated George W. Bush or a money-hungry knave. The evidence suggests, however, that Putin's position is based both on questions about the basic science underlying Kyoto and a recognition that while its implementation might prove beneficial to old Europe, it could cripple both the Russian and U.S. economies.

In fact, Putin's chief economic adviser, Andrei Illarionov, stated rather emphatically following the announcement of his government's decision to back away from Kyoto that "the Kyoto protocol will stymie economic growth [and] doom Russia to poverty, weakness and backwardness." It may have occurred to Putin that old Europeans know this and don't find it as troubling as the Russians.

Of more importance to the substantive debate is the fact that the Russians openly questioned the validity of the science that proponents of Kyoto use to justify their policy prescriptions. The U.S. government hasn't gone this far and seems disinclined to do so.

The U.S. position has thus been complicated by the fact that our government accepts the politically correct view of the problem in spite of the evidence but then argues that Kyoto is not in our economic interests. We are right in our view of the economic impact of a scheme that is designed more to redistribute world income than to deal with environmental degradation, but accepting the arguments of those who hold that our self-interested opposition to necessary action endangers all of mankind puts us at what might best be described as a moral disadvantage in the debate.

The fact is, of course, that the Russians are right. They seem prepared to join the argument not simply on the grounds of their narrow self-interest but on the question of whether those who think we are destroying the earth might just be wrong.

That's what leadership is about.

David Keene, chairman of the American Conservative Union, is a managing associate with the Carmen Group, a D.C.-based governmental affairs firm
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2003 08:25 pm
Re: Russian Leaders On Tax
Scrat wrote:
I just received this. Sounds like old-guard soviets are able to certain economic realities that American Democrats cannot...


If you'll allow me a flippant answer ...

"And when the little spotted duckling saw the spotted hyena appear at his side, he called out in scorn after the white ducks scurrying to the other side of the field: you dumb white ducks! See - even Mr. Hyena here understands it's better to be spotted - but you're all so blind you dont wanna see!"
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2003 05:26 pm
Re: Russian Leaders On Tax
nimh wrote:
If you'll allow me a flippant answer ...

Of course I'll allow it, but that doesn't mean I understand it. Confused
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2003 06:19 pm
LOL!

I was just doing a parable thing. If I would find myself one with allies like Putin (and I'm primarily talking about the article's author here), I would look over my shoulder to see where I might have gone wrong, instead of defiantly posturing about how "even he sees that we're right".

I think Putin's inclination towards a flat tax, for example, says a lot more about his nepotistic-political affinities with (most of) the Russian oligarchs, and his absolute indifference about how Joe Average is faring as long as he doesn't get restive - all little to do with the Russian leader purportedly seeing the ideological, libertarian light on tax issues.

And that, in turn - to someone with my opinions - would suggest some reflections on the downside of the "light" in question, period. The fact that minimum, flat taxes are especially attractive for people like Putin's oligarchic allies, who have channeled many billions of dollars out of Russia into private accounts in obscure foreign countries under his and Yeltsin's rule - says something (negative) about flat taxes, too. About whom they would profit, especially in transition countries, and what good they would - or wouldn't - do.

I expect we'll have to agree to disagree here (that's why I didnt go into it all the first time round) - but yeh, all that was implied in the little parable above! :-P
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2003 08:51 am
Amazing how you completely ignore the issue of how the Russian economy is doing under the flat tax and how the Russian people are prospering because of it.

Amazing...

It's as if I posted a story about a blue-haired old lady who can change lead into gold using only the power of her mind, and you replied, "She has blue hair???" :wink:
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2003 10:02 am
"Prospering" would be a bit much, Scrat ... see below.

Also, before crediting recent upturns to any specific Putinist policy (tax-related or otherwise), one should realise that a significant role in them was played by rising gas/oil prices. Profiting from those is mere luck and does not signify anything about the health of the Russian economy, tax system etc.

In any case, there's all kinds of details on the Russian economy, too, in the main thread about Russia here - it's one of the most interesting A2K threads, I find: WHAT'S IT LIKE LIVING IN RUSSIA TODAY?. You'll find quite a lot of posts of mine on various Russia-related issues there as well.

Note in particular this post from acepoly - where he is contending that "the [Russian] economy is getting even heathier" - and this post of mine - where I reply, amongst other things:

nimh wrote:
"even healthier" seems rather deceptive. The Russian government proudly announced this summer that Russia - in terms of GDP($), I believe - was back at the level of 1998, before the big rouble crash.

Back in 1998, in turn, Russia had just enjoyed a first year of GDP growth after having suffered at least seven consecutive years of GDP decline of anywhere between -2% and -14%, the years between 1992 and 1994 having been the worst.

[..] In the UN Human Development Index of 1990, the Soviet Union ranked 25th. The Russian Federation then ranked roughly between Malta and Hungary. In 1996, Russia ranked 52nd. Now, the Russian Federation ranks 63rd, in between Mauritius and Colombia.

[..] GDP per capita fell by an average of 3,5% a year since 1990, and is now lower than in 1975 (data 2001). Life expectancy among males has fallen by some 10 years since the late eighties. As the dire situation has people putting off family plans, the fertility rate has halved in the same period. About a quarter of the population lives on less than $ 2 a day.


No need for me to rehash any of that in this thread, but you'd be very welcome to join the discussion there!
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