What Did Jesus Sacrifice?

I think there's a difference between thouse who don't believe and those who don't WANT to believe and want to proselytize about it. Goes to low self esteem covered by a sort of passive aggressive bravado.

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@Intrepid,

who are much more intelligent and insightful than yourself.
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No one on it face no one can be completely sane if he buy into or allow childhood conditionings to override logic and commonsense when it come to such supernatural believes as in the god/man Jesus or for that matter the Greek or the Roman gods as they are one and the same.

So an insane person <a true believer> can surely be highly intelligent however he or she can not be insightful when it come to his or her own self.

Of course most people likely just give lip service to the gods and are not true believers.

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@Bi-Polar Bear,

I think there's a difference between thouse who don't believe and those who don't WANT to believe and want to proselytize about it. Goes to low self esteem covered by a sort of passive aggressive bravado.
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Pointing out to people who claim to see fairies that there are in fact on such things as fairies can be pointless but on the other hand for those who are just giving lip service to seeing fairies might need the moral support to stand up to the true born again fairies believers.

As hard as it is for me to understand at times it would seem that the bulk of the human race will go along with nonsense to be part of the group and of course when it come to religion not to do so for most of history would end up getting you slowly kill.

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@BillRM,

Except that just as a believer can't PROVE there's a Christian or Muslim or Jewish God, you can't prove there isn't. Everyone who claims the moral and/or intellectual high ground over soemthing they have no irrefutable proof about is an idiot and an insecure one IMO.

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@Setanta,

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You would need to get a clue before you could provide anyone else with one.

I have so many clues that your disturbed perception of reality impedes you from noticing them.

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I understood the Sinclair quote, and it doesn't apply to me.

Are we going to go back and forth with this? Do I have to brake this down in a way that even a six-year old would understand?

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I know what atheist means, as well, because that is how a religionist would describe me.

This is funny and misleading. You're actually saying that you hold the position of an atheist? You seem to have an identity crisis... get a clue and an identity.

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I also know that when you attempt to proselytize your lack of belief, it makes you a crusading atheist--

Believe it or not it makes me an educator....you wouldn't see the different, would you?

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you make a religion of your non-belief.

This is proof that you're not ignorant, but indifferent. do you know the difference? I will be so kind to explain it to you: "Ignorant" is a person who doesn't know; "indifferent" is someone who doesn't know and doesn't want to know....you fall into that definition perfectly ( the latter).

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It's a very silly activity, but i'm sure it entertains you.

People like you entertain me.

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@Bi-Polar Bear,

Except that just as a believer can't PROVE there's a Christian or Muslim or Jewish God, you can't prove there isn't. Everyone who claims the moral and/or intellectual high ground over soemthing they have no irrefutable proof about is an idiot and an insecure one IMO.
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Sorry but that logic will not wash as you or I can not disprove the existed of Greek gods or Roman gods or the hundreds of gods that the human race had dream up over the millions of years we had been around.

Hell you can not disprove Santa Claus or the tooth fairy are not real now can you by the same standards you wish to apply to Jesus?

If therefore the job/duty of the one coming up with a supernatural being of whatever kind to prove his or her or it existed not mine to prove he she or it does not exist.

Good try in defending your god by the inability of disproving a negative.

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@Jason Proudmoore,

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

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It's a very silly activity, but i'm sure it entertains you.

People like you entertain me.

Then I think you're about to get a lot of entertainment. Have fun Smile

(this thread is not turning out at all like I thought it would)

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

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It is atheists, like you, who give atheists a bad name.

I'm just defending myself, my dear friend. If you want to have a serious discussion, I'm up for it...otherwise, we'll become the owners of the circus.

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Fortunately, most atheists quietly go about their day with their lack of believe and let the believing do the same.

One of my main concerns includes children. It is the children I care the most...when you, creationists, start filling their little heads with fairy tales and fire and Hell...and eternal suffering. That's child abuse. And I don't go about my day with my lack of belief while you and your peers hinder progress of knowledge in the world, preaching intolerance from a book made by savages, ignorant and intolerant people from the bronze era. I will not let the believer do the same. The believer and I will engage in a civil discussion...if not, we would resort to what we're doing right now.

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You may come to see that, when you grow up.

Or probably you will see reason when you grow out of the childhood of our species, which still clings to an ancient belief in an invisible father figure who doesn't want to let his children grow up.

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@Bi-Polar Bear,

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I think there's a difference between thouse who don't believe and those who don't WANT to believe and want to proselytize about it.

Believe in What? Krishna? Baal? Allah? Ahura Mazda? Buddha? Zeus? Jesus? Yahweh? Hun Hunahpu? Inti? Horus?....which one do I have to believe in, Bi-polar? seeing is not knowing...believing is not knowing....by the way you're expressing yourself it seems that you know something I don't.

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Goes to low self esteem covered by a sort of passive aggressive bravado.

"Low self esteem"? "Passive bravado"? Do you even know what these words mean? You just made my day.

1 Reply

@Bi-Polar Bear,

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Except that just as a believer can't PROVE there's a Christian or Muslim or Jewish God, you can't prove there isn't.

Because the burden of proof lies on the person who poses the claim.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof...and none of these religions have provided the proof.

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Everyone who claims the moral and/or intellectual high ground over soemthing they have no irrefutable proof about is an idiot and an insecure one IMO.

Nobody would've said it better.
What can be affirmed without proof can be dismissed without proof.

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@rosborne979,

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Then I think you're about to get a lot of entertainment. Have fun Smile

Thanks

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@Jason Proudmoore,

Why is there a burden of proof? Nobody who claims to be a believer started this thread. You did. A believer does not have any obligation to prove their belief or what they believe in.

Nobody really cares if you need proof of what they believe. Nobody really cares if you reply to even your fellow atheists in a derogatory manner. I would think that they would no more want to be associated with your rantings than I would with a fundamentalist creationist. I also don't agree with most definitions of hell.

I happen to know many very influenctial, highly placed and educated people who happen to believe in God. I am sure that they also don't care that you think they are idiots. Nor do I know anybody who pushes anything on little children, or adults for that matter.

You also seem to paint everybody with the same brush.

I remember your posts from when you used to post here and you were just as much as an ass then are you are now.

Good luck in your quest.

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@Intrepid,

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Why is there a burden of proof?

There's ALWAYS a burden of proof on the person who establishes a claim. Or can I just go to any hospital claiming that I'm a medical doctor and expect to get a job there because they will not ask me for any proof? In what world do you live in?

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Nobody who claims to be a believer started this thread. You did.

Yes, I started this thread...and so what? What is your point?

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Nobody really cares if you need proof of what they believe.

Those who don't care aren't able to provide squat about their religious claims.

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Nobody really cares if you reply to even your fellow atheists in a derogatory manner.

I will not exempt any religious stance, even "my fellow atheists"...if you didn't know, there are creationists disguised as atheists...or they're just uneducated people who say they're atheist just to be different. And I think I've have witnessed it here at A2k.

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I would think that they would no more want to be associated with your rantings than I would with a fundamentalist creationist.

Do you believe this, or you know this?

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I also don't agree with most definitions of hell.

Yeah... and you have the proof to show that your definition of Hell is the valid one.

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I happen to know many very influenctial, highly placed and educated people who happen to believe in God.

These people...what education do they have? I know of a myriad of people who is biased and claims to have an education. They are the most dishonest.

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I am sure that they also don't care that you think they are idiots.

If they're idiots, they wouldn't care.

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You also seem to paint everybody with the same brush.

I do not put creationists in the same critical category. there is a group that is very special to me. there are two types of creationists: the creationist deceiver and the creationist deceived. The creationist deceived is the one I care the most, the "sheep."
See? I don't "paint everybody with the same brush".

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I remember your posts from when you used to post here and you were just as much as an ass then are you are now.

I'm happy you recognized me.

PS: you haven't changed either.

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Good luck in your quest.

From all the posts you have submitted at A2k, this quote is the most meaningful of them all....thank you.

1 Reply

@Jason Proudmoore,

YOU are the one who established a claim!

My point? It is that nobody made any claim other than you.

Provide squat? Why should anybody provide anything to you?

This is just too dumb for reply.

Can't you read, Bubba? "I would think" does not equate to know.

What does that have to do with anything?

Why does it matter what education they have. Dishonest? You are the dishonest one, Bubba. Your reasons for starting this thread were dishonest and a bait. You are on the lowest level of a troll.

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

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YOU are the one who established a claim!

Yes, I established a well supported claim that Jesus' death doesn't qualify as a sacrifice. Since the majority of Christians (if not all) affirm that Jesus' death was a necessary sacrifice for all humanity, I created this thread, in order to see if I was going to get a logical answer...but so far I've gotten incoherent arguments from you.
You established an unsupported claim earlier that constitutes as a conversation stopper. Since you have no idea what "reason" is, it would even be futile to discuss the thesis of this thread any further:

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What is reason to you can be the opposite to others.

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Provide squat? Why should anybody provide anything to you?

I'm not saying that you should provide me with any information on the matter, but someone who actually knows something about it. You're just providing me with amusement.

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This is just too dumb for reply.

And yet you do reply.

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Can't you read, Bubba? "I would think" does not equate to know.

I can read just fine. why can't you just understand the context of my question? it's easy...really:
Since creationists often mistake the word "belief" with "knowledge", I asked you whether you believed it or you knew it...because you're a creationist!

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What does that have to do with anything?

That your answers are rather obscure and misleading and require more clarity.

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Why does it matter what education they have

You see...I kinda assumed that you knew this already... and I was wrong, but it seems that I have to explain it to you after all...it matters what education they have because that's how you can tell a charlatan from the real thing...

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Dishonest? You are the dishonest one, Bubba. Your reasons for starting this thread were dishonest and a bait.

You don't even know what "honesty" is either. You seem to mistake the meaning of words a lot...is this a habit of yours? I started this thread with an analogy, followed by a question and an opinion....I never left anybody believe that I belonged to any religious sect. You just assumed that.

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You are on the lowest level of a troll.

This is what you wrote:

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This is just too dumb for reply.

and yet you still replying...who is the troll?

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@Intrepid,

I happen to know many very influenctial, highly placed and educated people who happen to believe in God. I am sure that they also don't care that you think they are idiots
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Highly educated and highly place surely completely sane no way.

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@Jason Proudmoore,

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

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I think there's a difference between thouse who don't believe and those who don't WANT to believe and want to proselytize about it.

Believe in What? Krishna? Baal? Allah? Ahura Mazda? Buddha? Zeus? Jesus? Yahweh? Hun Hunahpu? Inti? Horus?....which one do I have to believe in, Bi-polar? seeing is not knowing...believing is not knowing....by the way you're expressing yourself it seems that you know something I don't.

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Goes to low self esteem covered by a sort of passive aggressive bravado.

"Low self esteem"? "Passive bravado"? Do you even know what these words mean? You just made my day.

You don't have to believe in any of those things.... and one would assume by your communication that you choose not to believe in any of them... no problem.

and yes, I'm well aware of the meaning of my statements and language.... I'm glad I made your day but if that's all it takes you should get out more.

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@Bi-Polar Bear,

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You don't have to believe in any of those things....and one would assume by your communication that you choose not to believe in any of them... no problem.

There is no reason for me to believe in "those things" other than wish-think them to exist . The only reason why people believe in "those things" is because we are taught to believe in them. Today the majority of the world's population don't believe in the gods of the Romans or the gods of the Egyptians but in the Abrahamic religions is simply because of a "popularity contest". Because the Christian religions has found conflicting "truths" in its doctrine, it has been braking for centuries in different denominations...and each one claims to know the absolute truth and the mind of God. In order for people to not believe in those things, they have to learn how the sciences work and implement the scientific method, the only method we know that works and hasn't disappointed us...but in order for people to believe in religion, you have to know nothing about anything.

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I'm glad I made your day but if that's all it takes you should get out more.

I get out a lot...I just don't usually meet people like you...really.

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@Bi-Polar Bear,

I suppose Jason has never considered that some people believe because they CHOOSE to believe.

2 Replies

@Intrepid,

I suppose Jason has never considered that some people believe because they CHOOSE to believe.
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A large number of people had chossen to believes lot on nonsense in the history of the planet and to the degree that they do so that is the degree that they are not connected to the real universe.

2 Replies

What Did Jesus Sacrifice?

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