10
   

Poor Toyota

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 05:41 pm
@Intrepid,
Some modern cars have a lockout feature so you cannot downshift if going too fast.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That kind of remind me of a lawsuit file against one of the small planes manufacturer when they had a feature that below a certain airspeed and I think attitude the landing wheels would deploy and the pilot could not override them doing so.

That fine if you forgotten to lower the wheels on landing as not a few pilot had done so in the history of flying however in the case of losing engine power and an attempted to reach the airfield the extra drag can end up killing you.

In fact in the case I am remembering they fell short of the field by only a few hundred yards and a number of them die as a result.

The family sue the manufacturer for this safety feature.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 05:44 pm
@Intrepid,
They could have the police clear the way ahead. They could have the police guide you to a rolling stop.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the 911 call he was approaching an intersection at a 120 MPH kind of a short time frame to get the police to clear the way.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 07:25 pm
My bigger diesel pickup wont let me shut off the engine at speeds over 40. I guess thats because of the mass involved. However, diesels have a computer interconnect that reads all engine pressures and temps and at some ceritical engine pressure (<14 psi) it huts you down and there you are careening dsown the road like a very hevy ICBM. All steering then reverts to a poor mechanical system.

My Ford Escape allows the engine to be stopped at speed (even though its a hybrid).
STill, Intrepids idea of putting it in N is the best idea when youre really rolling.

The thing that really surprises me is that a Yota can do 120 mph. Maybe it was reading Km/fortnight
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 10:11 pm
@farmerman,
As a diesel don't have or need spark plugs so how do you shut off a diesel other then shutting off it fuel?

In fact I had an old van that would go into diesel mode and keep running long after I had try to shut it off.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 10:18 pm
In any case the point is that almost any driver with some time behind the wheel would had found a way to bring such a car under control before it even had time to burn out it brakes let alone reaching very high speeds.

Stopping the engine, down shifting and or taking the car out of gear any of the three would had allow the regaining of control and should be almost second nature for most drivers to do.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 11:00 pm
@BillRM,
you should google a guy name of Ralph Nader...
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 11:20 pm
100 incidents, 7 accidents, 5 deaths as reported by Toyota. It doesn't appear to be isolated to one fella who couldn't turn off the car or put it in neutral. It's mechanical.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 12:31 am
Evolution in action.
Mother Nature (with help from Toyota) weeding out the unfit.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  4  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 01:07 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Toyota after having a floor mat recall on millions of their cars is now going to recall them once more to replace the gas pedals and they are redesigning so if the gas pedal and the brake is engage at the same time the engine will shut down in future cars.


Good. That is a very simple improvement*. When you step on the brake the car should slow down, even if the accelerator is activated.

*Brakes overriding the accelerator is what I read about, not shutting the engine down.

Quote:
All this because a fool somehow ended up killing his family and others when the mat on his car cause the gas pedal to jam full on.


Yeah, auto safety improvements tend to have as a goal the whole not killing people thing.

Quote:
An adult who could not come up with turning the key to the off position is amazing and as a result Toyota is spending who know how many millions so fools will not kill themselves or others in that manner.


Driving is so much easier with hindsight from the safety of your computer. Everyone who has driven enough has made a mistake and been an "idiot" so why mock this guy? And why deride the improvements? This problem could occur in other situations that leave even a non-idiot driver such as yourself no time to prevent death or injury.

If his brake pedal was designed to override the accelerator (like it works on many other cars) this would not have happened. What on earth do you have against Toyota making such an improvement to their cars?

Even if you lack empathy and can't bring yourself to care about his life lost, or that of his family, you should be able to realize that there are plenty of "fools" on the road and they don't just kill themselves in accidents. The smug self-satisfaction that mocking his driving after-the-fact gives doesn't change that these safety improvements incrementally improve auto safety for everyone.

Toyota should redesign their pedals. Brakes that override accelerators are a no-brainer and they've recalled vehicles for a lot less. In 2006 Toyota recalled over a million vehicles to correct a phone number in the manual. This money is coming from funds Toyota set aside for such recalls and addressing the issue is good for them, given that their entire brand revolves around their reputation for reliability.

So what's your beef? Sounds like you just want to play Monday-morning quarterback and feel superior to a dead driver. That's a lot more stupid than the recall.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 03:03 am
@Robert Gentel,
Everyone who has driven enough has made a mistake and been an "idiot" so why mock this guy? And why deride the improvements? This problem could occur in other situations that leave even a non-idiot driver such as yourself no time to -prevent death or injury.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry farmerman this driver was an idiot who not only kill himself but all his passengers and others in a car he plow into.

He had the time for the car to burned out his brakes and even reach a very high speed and then have a conversation with a 911 operator.

So he had many minutes to move a gear leveler or press a button or turn a key and have everyone walk away.

That why I "mock" him as his actions and lack of actions cause any numbers of unneeded deaths.

Any car mats in any car can be a pain in the rear and I tend to removed them from my cars as a result.

As far as other accidents in Toyota cars claim to had been cause by floor mates moving around I had no details on those situations however we all know in this case this fool had all the time in this world to get his car back under control.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 03:22 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Sorry farmerman this driver was an idiot who not only kill himself but all his passengers and others in a car he plow into.


I'm not farmerman, if the guy is an "idiot" for failing to take the appropriate actions with a jammed accelerator what title would you use for someone who doesn't read very well?

Quote:
That why I "mock" him as his actions and lack of actions cause any numbers of unneeded deaths.


Nonsense, you mock him because it makes you feel superior. You aren't concerned with the deaths, after all you deride Toyota's steps to prevent future such instances. You like to mock others as an armchair quarterback and this is just like when you went on and on about how obvious it was that the "balloon boy" wasn't in the balloon only when everyone already knew that. You are one of those hindsight geniuses.

But putting aside your reasons for calling this guy an idiot, what kind of justification do you have for deriding Toyota's attempts to improve the safety of their cars? How does that make any sense? You are ignoring those questions I asked you while sneering at the driver's mistakes.

Brakes overriding accelerators is a good idea, what do you have against it? Are you not capable of understanding that such a design flaw could cause injury or death to people (non-idiots even) in situations where they would have none of the solutions you came up with after the fact?

This guy might have had time, but this design flaw didn't just cause this accident and in other situations there might not be time. What kind of genius are you for opposing the simple fix?
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 03:34 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Sorry farmerman this driver was an idiot who not only kill himself but all his passengers and others in a car he plow into.


He didn't kill anyone in the SUV he hit.

BillRM wrote:
So he had many minutes to move a gear leveler or press a button or turn a key and have everyone walk away.


The car was a loaner with an atypical ignition (no key) and had controls making it difficult to shift into neutral while in motion.

And where are you getting your "many minutes" from by the way? Are you just making that up to support your criticism?

BillRM wrote:
He had the time for the car to burned out his brakes and even reach a very high speed and then have a conversation with a 911 operator.


His passenger Chris Lastrella called 911.

If you are going to call the dead guy an idiot and a fool you would do well to get your facts straight about him.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 04:00 am
@Robert Gentel,
Nonsense, you mock him because it makes you feel superior. You aren't concerned with the deaths, after all you deride Toyota's steps to prevent future such instances. You like to mock others as an armchair quarterback and this is just like when you went on and on about how obvious it was that the "balloon boy" wasn't in the balloon only when everyone already knew that. You are one of those hindsight geniuses.

But putting aside your reasons for calling this guy an idiot, what kind of justification do you have for deriding Toyota's attempts to improve the safety of their cars? How does that make any sense? You are ignoring those questions I asked you while sneering at the driver's mistakes.

Brakes overriding accelerators is a good idea, what do you have against it? Are you not capable of understanding that such a design flaw could cause injury or death to people (non-idiots even) in situations where they would have none of the solutions you came up with after the fact?

This guy might have had time, but this design flaw didn't just cause this accident and in other situations there might not be time. What kind of genius are you for opposing the simple fix?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let see on the balloon matter it is a matter of public record on your website that I was stating that is was a hoax not an error by the family, when that question was STILL AT ISSUE , due to the fact that the father must had known that the balloon could not had carry the boy in the first place. Please note also that the carrying ability of the balloon was also at issue at this point and on this system remain so for some time afterward.

Also until the balloon landed and you could get a good view of how large it was or was not no one could had said for sure what it could or could not had been carrying the boy so both your complains on that matter is without any foundation.

You should read your own website.

Now as far as complaining that Toyota was taking costly steps to deal with the floor mats I never done so and anytime you need to recall millions of cars any fix is costly even a simple one.

My statement was I feel sorry that Toyota needed to do so if base on this idiot lack of ability to deal with a problem that almost all drivers should had been able to deal with. Not the same thing at all.

Now my feelings on hearing this fool talking to a 911 operator is why the hell did he not turn the engine off instead of talking to the 911 operator and I was mad at the lost of lives he cause as a result of not turning a key that was in front of him. Sorry that I did not know it was a button instead of a key at the time my friend that was in front of him that he needed to press!

Oh the TV at the time ID the driver not a passenger as the one talking to 911 and it did state that the car that was hit had people kill in it. So complain to the TV station not me if it turn out otherwise.

And my many minutes comment came from 48 years of driving that no car is likely to be able to reach well over a hundred MPH with it brake system fighting it to burn out all in less time then minutes.

As far as my feeling superior to this idiot I surely do but then 99.9999 percent of the human race had reason to feel the same way, so that is no big deal.

So once more your complains is without any foundation.

Hell after reading your nonsense posting I am feeling superior to even you my friend so feeling superior to a fool that can not figure out to turn a key or press a button is no big deal compare to the thrill of feeling that way toward such a great man as yourself.

Thank you for that thrill of thrills.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 05:17 am
@BillRM,
a bigger diesel still has glo plugs to start, only after start does compression take over. Small diesels have the track starters but Ive seen several small cars fail to kick over until several attempts were made to start.

The point is, when a bigger (and newer) truck senses a system failure, it shuts off the fuel . However since it oes into a free wheel mode, I have no steering and I can only barely get off the road.
This is an engine self protection mode that only happened once to me, when a garage did a bad oil change nd didnt put the drain cap back on properly so I was dumping oil (Engine and hydraulics use the same reservoir) and when it hit the 14psi, it shut down at 85 mph. I was on the NE extension of the Pa Turnpike and really fought to get the thing over to the side of the road from the passing lane.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 05:24 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
down shifting and or taking the car out of gear any of the three would had allow the regaining of control and should be almost second nature for most drivers to do.

Thats like knowing when youre gonna have a heart attack so that you can drive yourself to the hospital before it happens. A newer diesel truck (Not an old clunker van that diesels because you didnt do any tune ups), once the safety interlock computer shuts the engine you have no tranny, engine, and hydraulics.
When an emergency shutoff happens, its startling and nothing one can "prepare for", it happens immediately.(The Pressure sensors dont have a "warning system" that gives you a two minute notice)
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 05:38 am
@BillRM,
Your replies to Robert and most of the rest of us are utter nonsense. In fact, most of the details you reported on this story are false and probably a figment of your over active imagination and lack of comprehension. That makes the only idiot in this story you.

You talk of lack of experience etc. Are you aware that the driver of the car was a highway patrol officer? Are you aware that it was the passenger who called 911? Are you aware that a mismatched floor mat was in the car....not the proper floormat? Are you aware that the car was loaned to the family by the dealership while their own car was being repaired?

Only an idiot would post something without getting the facts. Only an idiot would argue with people who know what they are talking about. Only an idiot would respond to the wrong poster.

Have a good day.



farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 05:55 am
@Intrepid,
Often Bill "focuses" the informationof his threads to reinforce his own prejudices against people he considers inferirors. I wasnt aware of all the additional information you just presented. Also, I understand that the car was only a Toyota in its divisional attachments. The car was reportedly a Lexus, which, as many people know, is a car with all sorts of gizmos and electronic devices that need some familiarization before taking off from the dealership with a "loaner".

Bill doesnt make any mistakes , at least according to him. He is funny though. I like, his
"I may not always be right but Im never wrong" attitude.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 06:00 am
@farmerman,
You are correct, farmerman. It was a Lexus. Perhaps some of the blame lies with the dealership for not familiarizing the gentleman with the gizmos and electronic devices. That, however, is in hindsight.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 06:28 am
@Intrepid,
I wonder if Bill has ever had an accelerator stick under an errant floormat. I have had it happen. I am sure that anybody that has had this happen will concur with me that it takes you by surprise and there is a momentary apprehension and loss of what to do. The "natural" tendency is to hit the brake pedal. This has some, but little effect.

Shifting to neutral is not immediate. At least not at the time it happened. My instincts have sharpened since then and I am more likely to shift to neutral immediately. Unfortunately, this was not so easy on the Lexus.

P.S.
It is hard to take someone seriously when they are unable to do things like simple quotes on a forum. Here that Bill?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 07:56 am
@farmerman,
bigger diesel still has glo plugs to start, only after start does compression take over. Small diesels have the track starters but Ive seen several small cars fail to kick over until several attempts were made to start.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lord I was alway under the impression that only very small diesels down to even model planes/cars engines had glo plugs and bigger diesels just used their batteries and compression to start alone. not an expert in that field and after seeing the problems my father had with diesel cars never had a desire to become one.

As far as diesels being hard to start in cold weather I know that my father needed to carry an extra car battery to have a hope of getting his diesel car started in the NJ winters.

Also the railroad would keep their engines 24/7 in cold weather for that reason also.
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Poor Toyota
  3. » Page 2
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 06/25/2024 at 12:20:06