At least seven killed in shooting at Fort Hood, Tex.

@Diest TKO,

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It is easy to not have principles, chet. having principles is NOT the easy road.

You are the one showing a lack of principles. And despite that you are a hero because you have principles ? What twisted world do you live in ? Oh, I forgot...one without violence. A world where you can strut because of your demands placed on others to live to your creed.

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With this style of all-tough-no-facts debate you'll just be embarrassing yourself here.

And your facts are what ? I watch 24 but I dont have to when the fact is I dont ? very convincing...

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I don't like torture because it is morally, ethically, and don't trivialize this part, legally wrong.

You dont like torture because you are scared of pain. Where is the selfish motive here, because if you havent found one then keep looking. Do you really believe that sanctimoniuos crap about your self ?

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
Well, don't forget that he's living his life in fear, and wants everyone else to do the same....
So your plan is to tell each other what my viewpoint is....clever !

The irony is lost on you.

Have you not been telling us what we think? How did you put it? We like lovely things?

T
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1 Reply

@Diest TKO,

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It seems the answer is yes from your posts

It must be good to live in a world where you are deaf...never to hear a different voice. To tell others what they have said....

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Would you torture his children in front of him? Would you rape them? Would you execute them?

What a drama queen...the person who has the information is responsible. Why do you want to rape children ? not getting enough ?

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

You people are so lovely....the highest morals without a selfish motive to be seen. No doubt you all follow the law like good little Nazis. You are quite happy to attack me for my believes, because your cause is just and you are noble and decent. I know what mentality they got the witch trials from now. It was saints like you lot. You torture people everyday...the mentally ill are not allowed to suicide, the terminally ill are not allowed to end their lives, these people must live so you can make your own inevitable death seem further away. You cite the law ? Lets lock up people where they can be hardened and learn crime, perhaps some of that rape you like but definitely a bashing or two and perhaps murdered. But dont torture anyone, you useless pack of hypocrites because it may be you one day and you are scared of pain. Lets have your military tortured in training to resist torture..for your defence, you pack of hyenas...but lets not torture...we are too lovely for that.

It is obvious you have conceptual trouble with anything more morally complex then telling each other how lovely you are..but I will state it as succinctly as I can..torture if used on the right people does work. It should be used to save lives where a nation is threatened.

1 Reply

@Diest TKO,

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The irony is lost on you.

How do you know that ? ESP ?

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We like lovely things

For you reference "You want people to think of you as a lovely person so you must support lovely things."

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
It seems the answer is yes from your posts
It must be good to live in a world where you are deaf...never to hear a different voice. To tell others what they have said...

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I am arguing that torture is wrong. You are arguing against me and rationalizing torture. Am I to understand that you approve of torture but given the ticking bomb scenario, you would not do the torture? Perhaps, you would just approve of it.

Grow a spine dude.

You would or you would not do it. Which is it? You don't get to use an argument and then not account for the baggage that comes with it.

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
Would you torture his children in front of him? Would you rape them? Would you execute them?
What a drama queen...the person who has the information is responsible. Why do you want to rape children ? not getting enough ?

I have no desire to violently torture anyone, and I think it would be futile. You are the one telling us about the imperative need for some sort of information and that torture would be justified.

You came in here like a storm, but now you're getting gun shy with the questions. Don't be a coward. Answer the direct question I gave you.

1,000,000 people will die and this includes your family and everyone else you love. You can stop it if you get the information from this guy. Would you beat, rape, or even murder his children to get that info? You would or you would not.

It's not hard to answer the big bad scary question. I'll even show my cards first. My answer: No.

Call.

T
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1 Reply

@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
The irony is lost on you.
How do you know that ? ESP ?

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We like lovely things
For you reference "You want people to think of you as a lovely person so you must support lovely things."

Listen amateur. You only embarrass yourself when you try to call someone out for parodying you.

You have told us twice at least what we want other to think of us.

The irony is lost on you, and it doesn't take ESP, just the ability to quote you. To add to the irony, you quoted yourself with the exact relevant passage to which the parody is made.

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1 Reply

@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

I will state it as succinctly as I can..torture if used on the right people does work. It should be used to save lives where a nation is threatened.

So if torture fails, in order to save lives, you'd beat and rape the man's daughter or son in front of him. Or do you think that would fail to produce a result? Why would it not produce a result?

tick tick tick... gotta save those lives... tick tick tick... gotta get that information.... tick tick tick...

Yes or No.

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1 Reply

@Diest TKO,

You tell me what my argument is and soundly defeat it, stopping long enough to tell yourself how high moralled you are...seriously...does that earn you respect anywhere but in a pack of drunks ?
I would have answered your question if I had not been fending off a pack of dogs. You want to compare spines ? Mine has done more then yours for my country.
I served for 24 years in the army and I have been tortured. No, I did not give in. If any sort of selection procedure is used, torture can be applied succesfully to the right individuals. It must be kept to a minimum because of the potential to do as much harm as good.
I would inflict pain and humiliation to an individual who was an adult and who had been screened to be the type who will crack if the result could be information that was current and would save lives. He does not have the right to continue to harm when he is captured by withholding information.

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you're getting gun shy with the questions. Don't be a coward. Grow a spine dude.

Never heard of mental torture or is that acceptable , it is just pain you are freightened of ? Or perhaps your insults are acceptable because you dont like me...at least I was selecting people for their ability to harm...you select them like any good Nazi...you dont like them.

1 Reply

@Diest TKO,

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You only embarrass yourself

I'll decide when I am embarrassed. You save your ESP for learning the secrets terrorists are withholding.

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The irony is lost on you, and it doesn't take ESP, just the ability to quote you. To add to the irony, you quoted yourself with the exact relevant passage to which the parody is made.

You like irony and dislike torture..anything else I should know about you ? Oh, yes, your desire to put children in harms way.

0 Replies

@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
It is easy to not have principles, chet. having principles is NOT the easy road.
You are the one showing a lack of principles. And despite that you are a hero because you have principles ? What twisted world do you live in ? Oh, I forgot...one without violence. A world where you can strut because of your demands placed on others to live to your creed.

Quote:
With this style of all-tough-no-facts debate you'll just be embarrassing yourself here.
And your facts are what ? I watch 24 but I dont have to when the fact is I dont ? very convincing...

Quote:
I don't like torture because it is morally, ethically, and don't trivialize this part, legally wrong.
You dont like torture because you are scared of pain. Where is the selfish motive here, because if you havent found one then keep looking. Do you really believe that sanctimoniuos crap about your self ?

Above:
1) Telling me what I think. I apparently live in a world without violence.
2) Contradicting your previous statement about principles. First I was letting people die and get hurt by using my principles, and now I don't have them.
3) Telling me what I think. I apparently don't like torture of other because I fear pain.
4) More tough guy posing.

Here, have as many as you like.

http://treesflowersbirds.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/211_kleenex.jpg

T
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2 Replies

@Diest TKO,

Quote:

So if torture fails, in order to save lives, you'd beat and rape the man's daughter or son in front of him. Or do you think that would fail to produce a result? Why would it not produce a result?

tick tick tick... gotta save those lives... tick tick tick... gotta get that information.... tick tick tick...

Yes or No.

I must say, you are wierd. Are you a frustrated novelist ? Again with the telling me my position and defeating it. It is your only chance to win and you know it. Your question was answered and if you dont understand it you will have to get someone else to explain it because I am really pissed with your inability to reason.

0 Replies

@Diest TKO,

Quote:

1) Telling me what I think. I apparently live in a world without violence.

Violence is more readily accepted by those who live in a violent environment or who have violence done to them.

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2) Contradicting your previous statement about principles. First I was letting people die and get hurt by using my principles, and now I don't have them.

Perhaps you dont understand that the two statements are in chronological order and are correct.

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3) Telling me what I think. I apparently don't like torture of other because I fear pain.

What is your motive and dont give me any sanctimonious bullshit about how marvellous you are ? If you have not found a selfish motive for human behaviour then keep looking. Or is a lack of knowledge of psychology also one of your assets ?

0 Replies

@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

I served for 24 years in the army and I have been tortured. No, I did not give in.

Cool story bro. Sounds like torture failed. Your ego betrays you.

tick tick tick... boom.

**** dude. The bomb blew up! 1,000,000 dead, including all of your family. You failed to get the information out in time. Guess you didn't try hard enough. Lives were at stake! When torturing him wasn't enough, you stood by and let the bomb go off. How do you know that raping the child wouldn't have got you your info? I guess saving those people (that included everyone you've ever loved or loved you) just wasn't as important as you huffed and puffed about.

Your unwillingness to answer a YES or NO question is very telling of the vacancy in your argument. Additionally, the refusal to answer doesn't mean the bomb won't go off.

You can't play if you don't ante up. Now go grow a spine. If you aren't willing to defend your own arguments under fire, you don't offer anything here.

Goodnight.

T
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2 Replies

@Diest TKO,

Quote:

Quote:
you're getting gun shy with the questions. Don't be a coward. Grow a spine dude.
Never heard of mental torture or is that acceptable , it is just pain you are freightened of ? Or perhaps your insults are acceptable because you dont like me...at least I was selecting people for their ability to harm...you select them like any good Nazi...you dont like them.

And now I can add

Quote:

4) More tough guy posing.

Are you sure you are as lovely as you think you are ? Or is the irony lost on you ? You do like irony, dont you ?

1 Reply

@Diest TKO,

Would you wake up to yourself ? I answered that question...repeatedly saying I didnt just makes you look stupid.

0 Replies

@Diest TKO,

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Sounds like torture failed

I never said it worked all the time. You said that because you can not debate.

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Your ego betrays you.

Funny thing ego. We all have one. Some like me, base it on things I have achieved through sweat and pain. Others, like you, base it on other egos, trying to drag them down so you dont look so bad. When you dont like someone because their ego is not kiss-arse enough to your ego, I call that fear..which leads to violence.

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@Ceili,

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You're saying because the US Military teaches it soldiers how to deal with SOME aspects of torture, it's perfectly ok?

All military torture their own soldiers to various extents, depending on what level they are preparing them for. By saying SOME, I assume you are making slight of it ?

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the info they get from these sessions is crap

Who was being tortured for that to come out ? Perhaps they are unaware of what happened in Korea or Vietnam ?

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@Diest TKO,

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You'd bite your tongue if you did know, and you'd be thanking me.

Wrong again.

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You offer a false dilemma. We do not have to give up gathering information. In your frantic and shallow thinking you turn to violence instead of using your brain. Opting for brutality in desperation illustrates the weakness of your mind. As Ceili pointed out, our intelligence professionals have had better and more actionable intel from non-violent interrogations. The data does not side with your fearful and emotional stance.

You have assumed it is to be used universally. You are wrong.

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I prefer a nice Riesling and a sliced apple

Careful...some fruit may have been harmed.

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So then if WE decide an act is torture is it only torture when someone else does it?

Why are you pretending to be stupid ?

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It's pretty damn easy to say it's okay to do from the sidelines where you are clear of any consequences.

Exactly my point about you. Oh, the irony.

0 Replies

This would make a great sig if nothing else: "I'll decide when I am embarrassed"

0 Replies

At least seven killed in shooting at Fort Hood, Tex.

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