15
   

Avatar Dec. 18th IMAX 3D Second Trailer

 
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 12:14 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cameron's films can be hit-or-miss on the story, but it looked like there was plenty there to hang a story on.

Can't tell anything about the story from a trailer.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 12:31 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Cameron's films can be hit-or-miss on the story, but it looked like there was plenty there to hang a story on.

Can't tell anything about the story from a trailer.


Wow, disagree there. The preview makes clear:

- Main char. ships off to other planet
- Standard resource war vs. indigenous people going on
- Main char. implanted in 'avatar' clone body
- Main char. begins to identify more with the enemy
- Main char. enters romantic relationship with pretty enemy lady
- Main char. eventually joins sides with enemy
- Main char. leads enemy fight against old allies

Take away the sci-fi stuff and you have the exact plot of Dancing with Wolves. I wish more effort had been spent to come up with something more original, instead of focusing on the stupid '3d' effect.

Cycloptichorn
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 01:59 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Correction: One can't tell anything about the quality of the story from a trailer.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 02:00 pm
@DrewDad,
I agree that the writing and story may be very high quality. But they certainly aren't original, which is sad.

Cycloptichorn
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 02:08 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
There are no original stories. Even Shakespeare "borrowed" (read: stole outright) plots.

Look at Star Wars: A classic hidden-prince-rescues-the-princess-and-slays-the-dragon-with-help-from-kindly-old-wizard-and-rogue-with-a-heart-of-gold.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 02:17 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

There are no original stories. Even Shakespeare "borrowed" (read: stole outright) plots.

Look at Star Wars: A classic hidden-prince-rescues-the-princess-and-slays-the-dragon-with-help-from-kindly-old-wizard-and-rogue-with-a-heart-of-gold.


Some are more original than others; not all stories are equally unoriginal.

This story would be more original if the main character didn't switch sides, and instead helped eliminate the indigenous people completely - as was his job. Not much dramatic tension there tho.

Cycloptichorn
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 02:23 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Originality is overrated, especially in commercial enterprises. Most folks don't really want originality. They choke on Big Macs with BBQ sauce.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 02:26 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Originality is overrated, especially in commercial enterprises. Most folks don't really want originality. They choke on Big Macs with BBQ sauce.


Yes, and that's exactly why I loathe most movies, books and TV shows - they aren't designed to appeal to me at all, but to the lowest common denominator.

Shiny graphics don't pretty up a weak plot much, to me.

Cycloptichorn
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 02:32 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I understand completely.

Give me Primer any day of the week.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 02:45 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Movies, books and TV have to broaden their appeal beyond just trying to make money off the lowest common denominator. With movies, more people pay attention to bad reviews and it's torpedoed some real stinkers, but they have to pay enough more attention to good reviews. Great reviews have helped such films as "The Crying Game" gain a mainstream audience, at least enough to make a very good profit and encourage studios to make better quality films.

With "Avatar," it begins with whether one likes sci-fi or doesn't (if you don't, you're already biased). If Cameron has made this movie entertaining and it contains a strong message, he's succeeded. It's too often been producers' advise that if you make a movie with a message, you'll doom it at the box office. Of course, only 10% of the movies made are what I would give a four star rating and about all of those are already considered classics.

As sci-fi goes, I was at polar opposite to the critics on "Blade Runner" when it was first released. Time, and the release of the Director's Cut, has changed the minds of most critics and it's also a popular DVD in each of it's releases.

I can't really believe a savvy film-maker like Cameron would telegraph the plot that obviously with a trailer. We don't have that long to wait to find out!
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 03:02 pm
@Lightwizard,
I keep meaning to see the director's cut of Bladerunner. I've only seen the movie once, and was bored to tears through most of it. People keep talking about how great it is, but I never really understood why.

Sure, there are some interesting visual elements, but movies need more than that.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 03:34 pm
"Blade Runner" is set in an exotic and believable future, and it's about the struggle of beings to survive and be free, a policeman's (sort of a policeman) moral choice, and his romance of and defense of a doomed girl.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 03:37 pm
@Brandon9000,
Well, I was a teenager when I saw it, so my tastes may have changed.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 04:44 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon is one A2Ker who knows his sci-fi. There's a cut, Drew Dad, that not only is faithful to the director's but they actually went back and fixed some "shortcuts" that still bothered a lot of fans, one specifically the double with the Afro in the sequence where it was suppose to be Joanna Cassidy's character breaking through the glass windows after being shot. Cassidy actually went back to the studio to re-shoot the sequence. There was also some digital up-dating of the special effects.

The film is on the 100 best American films at AFI and is always on the top film critics 10 best sci-fi movies.

The film also brushes on the transitory nature of life -- how long we each have to live on this Earth. That we would manufacturer androids that have a "cut-off" date to avoid their becoming too much like us is a statement about human nature.

Back to "Avatar," Cameron has spent several years on this project and I doubt it's going to disappoint -- it's whether or not it's to its own fan base or, like the new Star Trek movie, it will attract those who might not go to see a sci-fi movie. We don't get much of a clue in the trailer about the depth of the characters -- it's liking seeing the sketches for a finished painting and having pre-cognition of what the finished artwork will look like.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 05:10 pm
@Lightwizard,
Lightwizard wrote:

Movies, books and TV have to broaden their appeal beyond just trying to make money off the lowest common denominator. With movies, more people pay attention to bad reviews and it's torpedoed some real stinkers, but they have to pay enough more attention to good reviews. Great reviews have helped such films as "The Crying Game" gain a mainstream audience, at least enough to make a very good profit and encourage studios to make better quality films.


I understand about appealing to the masses, but I still reserve the right to disdain media which does so for the sake of profits.

Quote:

With "Avatar," it begins with whether one likes sci-fi or doesn't (if you don't, you're already biased).


You will not find a single person on A2K who has read or watched more Sci-fi than myself. I have a library of about 2 thousand novels, 95% of them sc-fi and fantasy. There are very few sci-fi shows which appeared on TV which I haven't watched (mostly in their entirety) and I've seen as many movies as anyone.

I am coming at this from the exact opposite direction from someone who doesn't like sci-fi: I am an extreme sci-fi fan, and nothing about Cameron's flick looks particularly innovate or exciting in terms of the sci-fi elements.

Quote:
If Cameron has made this movie entertaining and it contains a strong message, he's succeeded. It's too often been producers' advise that if you make a movie with a message, you'll doom it at the box office. Of course, only 10% of the movies made are what I would give a four star rating and about all of those are already considered classics.

As sci-fi goes, I was at polar opposite to the critics on "Blade Runner" when it was first released. Time, and the release of the Director's Cut, has changed the minds of most critics and it's also a popular DVD in each of it's releases.


Well, I love the Ultimate Collector's Edition of Blade Runner. I remember watching it as a young man and being blown away. That's the exact opposite of Cameron's new movie: a truly deep plot, exploring many philosophical points of interest, with strong effects to back it up.

Quote:
I can't really believe a savvy film-maker like Cameron would telegraph the plot that obviously with a trailer. We don't have that long to wait to find out!


****, I can. The directors don't usually make trailers, the production studios do.

I'll keep an open mind about it, but so far - not impressive. The graphics are nice but the plot looks weak weak weak.

Cycloptichorn
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 05:24 pm
@Lightwizard,
Lightwizard wrote:
I don't think the science in the film will be totally revealed until you see it. I'm planning on seeing this one in 3-D IMAX. Perhaps there's some device that affects the gravity field or there are gravity storms on Pandora. I Cameron did his research well and come up with a unique, strange planet where the laws of physics are toyed with, it could be more fun than the story. Or -- is it a part of the story?

Ok. I'll withhold my concerns over the science until I see the film. Maybe the native aliens are sitting on some super-advanced gravity control technology remaining from their high-tech culture (which they abandoned) eons ago... kind of like that original Star Trek episode...
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 05:30 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

I understand completely.

Give me Primer any day of the week.


America **** yeah! That movie ruled.

As for originality in modern sci-fi, I would say that the recent Section 9 was extremely original, not to mention well done; I can't remember a similar plot in recent sci-fi media.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 05:30 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

DrewDad wrote:

Cameron's films can be hit-or-miss on the story, but it looked like there was plenty there to hang a story on.

Can't tell anything about the story from a trailer.


Wow, disagree there. The preview makes clear:

- Main char. ships off to other planet
- Standard resource war vs. indigenous people going on
- Main char. implanted in 'avatar' clone body
- Main char. begins to identify more with the enemy
- Main char. enters romantic relationship with pretty enemy lady
- Main char. eventually joins sides with enemy
- Main char. leads enemy fight against old allies

Take away the sci-fi stuff and you have the exact plot of Dancing with Wolves. I wish more effort had been spent to come up with something more original, instead of focusing on the stupid '3d' effect.

Cycloptichorn

Those are the same things that worry me. But I'm going to keep my hopes up and fingers crossed. Smile
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 05:32 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:
There are no original stories. Even Shakespeare "borrowed" (read: stole outright) plots.

I found "Dark City" to be a very original Sci-Fi story.

I think originality can still be done, it's just harder than before. And Sci-Fi is one of the few areas of real fertile ground for originality, writers just need to stop focusing on the "human" qualities of the story (which have mostly been done before), and start imagining some alien qualities.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 05:46 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:
I keep meaning to see the director's cut of Bladerunner. I've only seen the movie once, and was bored to tears through most of it. People keep talking about how great it is, but I never really understood why.

Sure, there are some interesting visual elements, but movies need more than that.

Blade Runner had some great dialog in it. Roy Batty's final speech as well as his conversation with his "father", come to mind.

Tyrell: "The light that burns twice as bright burns for half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly, Roy."

Batty: "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain..."

Also (and purists will kill me for this, but...) I liked the original cut better than the director's cut because I liked the narration by Harrison Ford and I liked some of the background music which was omitted in the Director's Cut.
 

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