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The killing-off of the "Two State Solution"

 
 
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 02:41 pm
So, with Benyamin Netanyahu and his Likud party at the helm of a zealot right-wing coalition government in power in Israel the so called two-state solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict is effectively dead. He has flatly refused to halt expansion of settlements (in the face of President Obama's impotent call to halt construction there) well within West Bank land that's been slated for a future Palestinian state. He has adamantly rejected the idea of East Jerusalem being the capital of that future state, and flatly refuses to recognize the Palestinian Right of Return, demanding in a speech he gave at Bar-Ilan University in June that the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist, not merely as a state, but specifically as a Jewish state. In the same speech he grudgingly considered the possibility of a demilitarized Palestinian entity under the strictures of Israeli dictates. At the very least Netanyahu recognizes that the advancement of the Palestinian economy is a requisite for the diminishment of extremism that grinding poverty tends to predispose. Unfortunately, for Netanyahu economic assistance would be just about the fullest extent of Zionist concessions in their conflict with the Palestinians, and would use the event of Palestinian resistance to justify further oppressions against that population.
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Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 02:50 pm
@InfraBlue,
Israel needs to reject "right of return" in order to maintain the existence of Israel at all and most Arab states have already conceded this, changing their language to (paraphrasing here from memory) "fair and equitable settlement" on the issue. In short the refugees would get some kind of compensation instead of relocation in Israel.

I wish the US would show some balls though, and recognize and support a Palestinian state even if Israel refuses to. When Sharon was around he'd put off peace saying he needed a "period of calm" where Israel isn't being attacked. The attacks have subsided and been at low ebb for years now, and there's really no reason for Israel to keep putting off peace except that it can continue to expand its territory through settlement as long as it refuses to do so.

If Israel is going to thumb their noses at the US, I think we should return the favor. If they aren't going to be a partner in peace then the Palestinian state should be unilaterally defined without them.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 07:47 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Israel's rejection of the Palestinian's Right of Return is based on their insistence that Israel maintain a Jewish majority making it specifically "a Jewish state." Logomachies aside, "Israel" by any other name would continue to exist. Merely, a Palestinian majority would exist there.

Many, many Palestinians, especially those living in other countries, don't think about "returning" to Palestine. They merely seek recognition and redress for the Nakba that was the direct consequence of the Palestine civil war, and the creation of the state of Israel that immediately followed, and also the dispaced populations after the 1967 war.

Concerns about a Palestinian majority oppressing or "extinguishing" a Jewish minority in Israel/Palestine--right now the minority is oppressing the majority there in the name of an ethnocentric state--an international governing body like the one originally called for by UN Resolution 181 that Israel trumpets as its international sanction should be emplaced that would enforce the rights of all the peoples of that state, and that would aggressively persecute the violent militants on both sides.

As it stands Zionists want to settle in the West Bank, and the Palestinians call for the Right of Return. I say let them through the creation of a single, bi-national state that guarantees the rights of all of its peoples.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 11:37 pm
@InfraBlue,
Good grief what mass produced left-wing spew.

Of course the Israelis are not ever going to agree to the so-called "Right of Return." They might as well agree to shutting their doors, turning off the lights and moving to Antartica (perhaps the world will allow Jews to "own" that barren waste).

It is beyond cynical to suggest that Israel will still exist if Palestinians eventually overwhelm Jews in that country.

The Palestinians are not in a position to demand anything except that they have become the darlings of, notwithstanding their acts of terrorism, the International Left.

If their fellow Arabs gave a rat's ass about them would they be subject to "grinding poverty."

No, their fellow Arabs are all too content on letting them suffer and using them as a political wedge. Unfortunately the Left enables them.

There cannot be a contiguous Palestinian state without splitting Israel.

There cannot be a Right of Return granted without the dissolution of Israel.

There is no reason to partition Jeruselem. Any and all so called muslim "holy sites" in Jeruselem have been built on the ruins of Israeli holy sites.

If Palestinians are living in abject poverty (and I'm not arguing that they are not) doesn't it behoove their leaders to give up ridiculous claims they have no hope of realizing for a better life for their people?

Israel will allow a Palestinian state, and they will allow it tomorrow if the Palestinians give up their demands for a "Right of Return," a contiguous state, and Jeruselem, and if they unequivocally acknowedge the right of Israel, a Jewish state, to exist.

But of course, they will not. Must be Israel's fault.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Sep, 2009 11:42 pm
@Robert Gentel,
If the US showed some balls it would be by telling the Palestinians that they should stop making ridiculous demands, acknowledge Israel's right to exist and get on with making a homeland for their people.

The US always, and no more so then now, has the balls to tell Israel what they want them to do.

The soverignty of every tinpot dictatorship in the world is somehow sacrosanct, but not Israel's.

Israel is not a vassel state of the US.

Push them too hard and they will tell us to go to hell.

Do we want that?

They have nukes. They will never go down without a fight.

Never again.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 10:42 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Israel will allow a Palestinian state, and they will allow it tomorrow if the Palestinians give up their demands for a "Right of Return," a contiguous state, and Jeruselem, and if they unequivocally acknowedge the right of Israel, a Jewish state, to exist.


That's not what they are saying themselves right now. They are also insisting on demilitarization and control over their air space. That isn't an independent state.
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Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2009 10:48 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
If the US showed some balls it would be by telling the Palestinians that they should stop making ridiculous demands, acknowledge Israel's right to exist and get on with making a homeland for their people.


Why would that take any balls? It's just as easy to ignore them and let Israel continue their territorial expansion.

Quote:
The US always, and no more so then now, has the balls to tell Israel what they want them to do.


Not true. Many presidents of the US fear the lobby enough not to get too tough with Israel. George Bush I attributes his election loss to doing so, and for good reason.

Quote:
The soverignty of every tinpot dictatorship in the world is somehow sacrosanct, but not Israel's.


I'm fine with Israel's sovereignty, but on their own land. Not land they seek to appropriate from others. There is no nation on earth that recognizes Israel having the borders it wishes to define for itself.

Quote:
Israel is not a vassel state of the US.

Push them too hard and they will tell us to go to hell.

Do we want that?


Sure. They provide us very little benefit for the amount of headache they cause us.

Quote:
They have nukes. They will never go down without a fight.

Never again.


What kind of fantasy is this? Their nukes aren't going to be used in a confrontation with the US, and no US president will even have the balls to confront Israel with a pea shooter.
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