Is Christianity Irrational?

Here's another link on the violin. http://www.54youth.com.cn/big5/paper111/1/class011100003/hwz51844.htm

Peter Ustinov in "Quo Vadis" was playing on some sort of small harp-like instrument as I recall (a lyre, perhaps).

The great fire in Rome started around the Hippodrome and since most of the housing in the poor sections were wooden, it all went up like a tinderbox. The Christians had been spreading the word that Rome must burn years before the event and the fire itself actually only pre-dating the writing of Revelations by about twenty years. The Roman fire fighting force was constantly putting out fires but they were always controllable. The famous conflagration started in one place and then began to spring up all over the city -- even after it was under control, it started up again. Of course, Nero was also infamous for not treating the Christians well before the fire and his treatment of them afterwards was one of the reasons he was out of favor with the Roman hierarchy to the point of committing suicide.

truth
In a very small nutshell, the first known string instrumenets played with bows developed sometime between A.D.800 and A.D. 900. They were not similar to the modern violin, however. Around the 1300s instruments resembling the fiddle in shape emerged. By the late 1400s there developed "viols" held erect between the knees like the cello. Next came primitive violins held on the arm or under the chin. By the 1500s the violin as we know it began to emerge. Throughout the 1500s to the 1700s the greatest violins were made in northern Italy, mainly the towns of Cremona and Brescia. It is my good fortune to own a violin made by one of the last great Cremona violin makers, Lorenzo Storioni, in 1781. Don't get me started.

Re: truth

Wow. *drools* Do you play? And, do you burn candles in it's effigy? That is fabulous.

truth
Yes, I play, but I don't burn candles in its effigy; it is still alive.

JLN, Thanks for sharing the history on the development of the violin. Violin is one of my favorite instruments, and I've been a follower of Midori for many years. Heard her play with the San Francisco Symphony orchestra a few times, and saw her solos at Carnegie Hall on t.v. - one of my favorite shows on her. Our friend's daughter was the concert mistress at UCLA when she attended there about ten years ago, but could not find employment in any orchestra, so she's now a RN.

truth
C.I., that's why I decided not to take up the profession (my father was a professional violinist--that's how I got the Storioni--and always advised his sons to play music but for the love of it only). By the way, that is also why I did not try to paint professionally. What a chicken, eh? Yeah Midori and Sarah Chang are marvels. I hope your friend's daughter still plays, either in community orchestras or chamber music groups. It's a great release for people in the medical profession. BTW, among advanced amateur violinists the most represented profession is medicine (our quartet's violist is my doctor).

One of our friend's brother plays with the Los Angeles Philharmonic. We heard them play when their ochestra played at DeAnza College in Cupertino many years ago, and our friend drove down from San Francisco. Several other friends joined us, and our friend, his brother (violinist), and several of us went out to dinner that night. A florist I did bookkeeping work for many years ago knows Kyung Wa Chung. I have some of her CD's.

truth
Yeah, she's another marvel. There was a time when I was young that the general belief among violinists I knew was that while women could learn to play the violin well, their basic lack of strenght would prevent them from being great (there were historical contradictions to this assumption but they were not mentioned). But now with the advent of MANY young female asian vioinists who not only play well, but who play at the highest level of artistry, that prejudice is dropped.

Another rememberance; heard Anne-Sophie Mutter play Mendelssohn's Concerto in E Minor in San Francisco many years ago. She played it so beautifully, I cried. Also saw Nigel Kennedy play with the San Francisco Symphony. If I remember correctly, I think he played Tchaikovsky's violin concerto. Getting hungry to listen to some live classical music.

Better get online for tickets, c.i. I'm going to see the Kirov here. Seems to be violin virtuosity as well as figure skating has become an Asian forte!
Just purchased the Mendelssohn and Tchaikovsky Piano Concertos played by Lang Lang. So we aren't fiddlin' around here -- the piano has been added to the mix.

(Well, actually, we are strayed from the subject but if you want to believe the Asians have a "God" given talent....)

truth
Well, SOME asians are talented, others are not. Just iike here. BUt you know that, of course. While I don't think that intercultural comparison for the purpose of ranking is valid (the comparing culture always wins because it sees itself as the criterion of value), it does seem that Western art music (as opposed to recreational music) has trumped that of the East. China and Japan (Korea?) have taken up Western music with a passion while the West has not taken up the East's music (but it has its mysticism and its martial arts).

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I was thinking you would make an effigy of the violin, and burn candles to that, because you wouldn't want to get smoke on the precious Cremona. I don't think somthing has to be dead to have an effigy
ef·fi·gy    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (f-j)
n. pl. ef·fi·gies

1. A crude figure or dummy representing a hated person or group.
2. A likeness or image, especially of a person.

although it usually is.

Do you have any of your quartet's music online? I play the flute (western and various other kinds) and dabble lightly in violin and piano.

truth
PS, we've never recorded anything, if that's what you mean. We just play for fun, rarely for an audience.
We play mostly the standard classical stuff. Lots of Haydn, Mozart, early Beethoven (we're not up to the late quartets), Dvorak, and some Borodin.

Woa! Sorry I haven't been in here for so long. I missed a lot of great conversation. Though I'm not very knowledgable of classical music, I do enjoy enjoy it (though it's not a favorite). And what would it be without the violin?!



You are right. It's just so amazing when things suddenly happen that it is easy for peole to attribute them to the devine (as they see fit to believe).



Well, it wouldn't if all the people who had believed in God, gods, or good fortune were suddenly informed that everything they hyold true does not exist -- with substantial proof to convince them. It would be a sudden drop in their faith and possibly the results. But if they were all proven to have been able to affect the outcomes of those "miracles" by other means, then there is a possibility. So you're right -- we really don't know.



That makes perfect sense. I really don't know much about leoparacy, so I cannot say I know there is or is not a vaccine. And there are people who are just somehow immune to certain thngs before even coming in contact with it.

About the brontosaurus, I was wondering why I hadn't heard it mentioned in a long time.



Unfortunately, I'v been having an unusually busy and stressful week, but I will answer this at another time. And no, I was not referring to poetry, emotion, or an extension of emotion.



It's not really specifying any religion, since "faith healing" is generally used (as far as I have seen it) to cover all things cured or attempted to be cured or healed by non-medical means. I'm just saying that the mind does have a long-term effect on a person's physical nature. Of course there is always the question about how much thought it would take for sudden instances of healing (that is if it was a "true miracle" as in unexplainable and undoubtably changed).



A miracle is an unexplainable (good implied) event. Credit is not always given to a religion or a supernatural source, though many people will credit whatever spiritual force they see as supreme if they are the recipient of the event. Of course, when the miracle does not happen until someone "prays" for it to happen, and it happens (or seems to begin to happen) at that time, it is much easier to connect the two.

An example of this happened to me. When I was born, I was diagnosed with some fatal chemical imbalance, but I forget what it's called. I was constantly being monitored in hopes that the level of this chemical would decrease but it only increased. Finally, the doctor told my mom to tell me good bye before I was helicoptered off to another hospital with better equipment. Of course youhave figured out by now that my mom prayed for me. I went home the next day, with perfectly normal levels of whatever chemical was going berserk earlier. All I remember being told about this is that it was the type of chemical that would have taken weeks to bring down if my system began to normalize. The helicopter was never able to take me to the other hospital -- it's another unusual coincidence (every time a helicopter was on the way, it experienced difficulties or there was another emergency). There's just little that can be said to explain how such a chemical's level changes from near fatal to fine in just a few short hours, when it should have taken weeks.



Well, I was referring to an increase of whatever chemical(s) that would boost the body's ability to heal itself. How a person feels psychologically? Yes. That's my point. Hope may be able to convince a person's body into releasing the necessary chemicals to boost its healing properties.



And the point to this would be ... just a historical point (if so, kool)? It's just that any group of people will defend themselves when they feel they are being unjustly and harshly treated. Though I may not support the method used, I also have to ask myself if there was another way for them to make their point and get results, without simply perpetuating their former situation or even worsening them?

truth
It still seems to me that an unexplained phenomenon is only considered a "miracle" if it is associated with some kind of religions force, some kind of devine or supernatural intervention. Otherwise it would be considered only an unexplained phenomenon.

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I -love- Dvorak, especially his new world symphony. I have also yet to meet a human who didn't like Beethoven. Mozart I like for certain activities, like writing papers to - he is so formal and restrained. Haydn is good for feeling regal. Haven't heard Borodin that I recall, I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for him. Do you like Prokofiev? As a dabbling musician, tips are always appreciated - I should really start checking the music threads.

Borodin described himself as an amateur composer. He was a chemist by profession, and composed music in the evenings when he went home. I highly recommend his second symphony. If you listen to Prince Igor, i'm sure you'll recognize the Polvetzian Dances (probably misspelled). The "tune" from the Polvetzian Dances was used in the 1940's for the song "Strangers in Paradise."

truth
Yes, Set. a beautiful theme... "Take my hand, I'm a stranger in paradise..."
And was not "Somewhere over the rainbow..." from a Rachmaninoff concerto?
Portal Star, our community orchestrar has played Dvorak's "From the New World" twice in the last five years. I feel that it is one of the very great masterpieces of all time--a true validation of human evolution.