Minuteman Leader murders 9 year old girl.

I think that's engy's point. The solutions for enforcement are all available, but we have to accept the ticket cost for them. Until we do, they remain underfunded. The GOP needs to state what they value and then accept what the cost is.

T
K
O

Currently, the GOP doesn't have a goddamned thing to say about it. They had their chance, and they f*cked it up royally--FEMA, the Corps and INS. The ball has landed firmly in the lap of Mr. Obama and the Democrats. It might not be fair, but it is reality. I think some funds for INS are more important, then say . . . oh, i don't know . . . buzzing New York with Air Force One?

I'm just saying where I see the resistance coming from on a topic like funding **** we want/need. I totally understand it falls on the democrats to actually get it done.

T
K
O

Well, in addition to not having a goddamned thing to say about in terms of providing support to FEMA, the Corps and INS, the GOP also doesn't have a goddamned thing it can do to stop it, either. Their "resistance" is the rage of dreaming sheep.

I'd say we're basically on the same page on this one.

Set, I agree with you completely. I'm not trying to excuse the lack of funding, I'm trying to say we have to be willing to pay for them with our taxes instead of stringing up every politician that tells us that.

There wouldn't be any need for border enforcement if there weren't any jobs here for illegals.

Raise the penalties for hiring illegals to the point where the risk is prohibitive, and companies will stop hiring them, and people will stop coming into the US illegally.

Of course, the personnel costs at meat packing plants (and farms, and lawn services, and, and, and) will shoot up....

What is a mystery to me is why people have that attitude--and i sometimes suspect that they may not in fact have that attitude. I don't know if you recall, but in the 2000 campaign, public opinion polls showed that people were not responding to Bush's tax cut rhetoric--it was just something that didn't bother them. I don't think politicians will get strung up for raising taxes back to their previous levels. I think conservatives would like us to believe that that would happen, though. In some cases, the differences between Republicans and Democrats are so negligible that tax cut promises are about all the Elephant has got to say for himself.

I hope you are correct. I'm all for putting taxes where they were when Clinton left office even though I will pay noticably more.

I think they could get away with it. The Republicans are operating strictly on the squeaky wheel principle. They have no power at all now. Democrats have to get over the legacy of 12 years of Republican Congresses, and recall that they are now in the driver's seat. The main objection is that money bills originate in the House, and members of the House never stop running for election--which means they are usually running scared. One can only hope for some backbone.

Fairly obvious, isn't it? Not to the rabid leftists here, obviously, since they continue to rail against alleged "right-wing extremist groups" whose alleged activities exist only in their imaginations. IF they REALLY had ANY indication to support these idiotic accusations they might usefully pass them on to the FBI, which is focusing on lone deranged individuals acting outside ANY groups:


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124501849215613523.html#mod=loomia?loomia_si=t0:a16:g4:r4:c0:b0

Of course any friends, relatives, and associates of illegal aliens engaged in the drug-trafficking trade may not like to call the FBI, but if they really care about public safety in the US they should at least stop posting their nonsensical accusations online.

Setanta wrote:

I think they could get away with it. The Republicans are operating strictly on the squeaky wheel principle. They have no power at all now.

********************************

Really? Well then, Senile one, that must mean that ALL the Democrat initiatives will pass exactly as the Messiah wishes-unemendated and pristine>

You forget the Blue Dog Democrats and, after them, the election of 2010, which will come up during the time that the US populace will have endured massive 11--12% Unemployment rates for at least a year!

and there are not enough means to determine who will snap and who will not.

Is this to imply that we need some sort of screening system to figure out who is goint to "snap"?...fairly Orwellian don't you think?

Crazies exist. We have to punish them when they lash out...and punish them HARD. NOT as a tool intended to deter further violence by other crazies but as a PUNISHMENT for THE violence they themselves have heaped on we, the un-crazies!

I don't know what Edgar was thinking, but the predictor used by the FBI as explained in the last posted link is getting excluded from organized groups on grounds of mental instability or just plain demonstrable lunacy - look at the tagging of this thread, for instance: "bigotry", "hatred" and other similar drivel only some psychobabble victim could come up with. Unless he's an actual suspect, of course. I doubt the tagger is, but if he has nothing better to do than tag threads with nonsensical terms he might usefully review his motives.

The thrust of my post was to ask ebrown, "What do you propose?"

Thanks, Edgar, I thought that was your meaning, but didn't wish to preempt and respond to the poster on your behalf.

Now that you bring it up, though, I also noticed that instead of replying to you, Brown-Munoz turned tail and ran from his own thread - typical of him, especially when he's exposed talking nonsense...

Idiot.

Hard line political groups call immigrants "invaders" and doctors "baby killers"-- it is not that surprising when violence ensues. They should own up to the facts that their rhetoric (which is designed to stir up hatred and fear) leads to violence.

This violence is inexcusable and should not be allowed to be effective. I find it sad that cracking down on the victims is even mentioned in discussion of a brutal murder.

These groups should be given responsibility for the impact of their message of hate. The FBI reports a 40% increase in hate crimes against Hispanics (this includes American citizens) that corresponds to the rise of the current batch of anti-immigrant extremists.

Let's talk about Free Speech. These groups have free speech (and I am in favor of free speech)... but free speech works both ways. Tying anti-immigrant groups, with their defamatory attacks on Hispanics (yes the attacks are against immigrants and US citizens alike) to the violence that ensues is fair.

If anti-immigrant folks could make their argument without resorting to fear and hate speech, it may be better for everyone.

I agree totally, ebrown. But the devil is in the details. I don't know how to get there from here.

Setanta wrote:

I think they could get away with it. The Republicans are operating strictly on the squeaky wheel principle. They have no power at all now. Democrats have to get over the legacy of 12 years of Republican Congresses, and recall that they are now in the driver's seat. The main objection is that money bills originate in the House, and members of the House never stop running for election--which means they are usually running scared. One can only hope for some backbone.
**************************************************************

Is Setanta's eyesight failing? or does he only read left wing screeds?

The Messiah, after only five months in office is losing his approval rating:

Note:

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Tuesday, June 23, 2009 Email to a Friend ShareThisAdvertisement
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 33% of the nation's voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-three percent (33%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of 0 (see trends).

Seven percent (7%) rate the economy as good or excellent while 59% say it’s poor. A Rasmussen video report notes that 55% believe business leaders will do more than government officials to get the economy moving again.

The Presidential Approval Index is calculated by subtracting the number who Strongly Disapprove from the number who Strongly Approve. It is updated daily at 9:30 a.m. Eastern (sign up for free daily e-mail update). Updates also available on Twitter.

No one can learn,
from a response like that Mr. Brown.

Your characterization is not true and it is not helpful.

Your words represent u.




David