San Diego tries to ban Christianity

@DrewDad,

I disagree.

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@DontTreadOnMe,

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

in any case, it's my opinion that this is a case of religion being used to manipulate existing law. that and a buck will buy me a plain coffee.

Of course! The freedom of religion manipulates (your word, not mine) what existing laws can demand of people and what they can't. All human rights do that.

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof--semicolon--or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press--semicolon--or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Each clause is distinct, and separated by a semicolon. Those familiar with the Riot Act will immediately understand the significance of the third portion of this amendment, and in particular the significance of "peaceably to assemble" linked to petitioning for a redress of grievances.

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@Thomas,

Not that long ago a woman needed to serve time in jail for the crime of writing a few short stories and selling them to about 30 people she had a web group with.

First amendment did not give her any protection as the stories deal with child rape from the rapist viewpoint.

As far as I am aware, the courts had not found any constitution right to be absolute no matter what the wordings sound like.

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@Thomas,

i use the word manipulate because there are those people in the world that use religion to get something that might not otherwise be allowed or come to them.

in one of my posts, i mentioned that this case would get wilder if the sekulows and terrys showed up.

and now i have provided evidence that a sekulow protege's firm has entered the fray.

there are steps that are followed in these things. and they are making them.

i also provided evidence that this is not the first time that this pastor has acted without proper permits.

also, thomas, there are obviously others who are more than happy to aid that type of person; do you see how a simple "warning " citation for a zoning violation has ballooned into "San Diego tries to ban Christianity"

as a sidebar to this conversation, have you also noticed that while there is much flap about this topic while the religious people of the forum have brought up the murder of dr. tiller a total of zero times that i've seen?

i've been avoiding starting that thread because i've never hidden my thoughts about the evangelical movement. and i didn't come to them without reason.

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@DontTreadOnMe,

Quote:

this is a case of religion being used to manipulate existing law.

I don't know DTOM...my 2 cents, it's neither that nor the opposite...existing law trying to manipulate religion...rather Gunga's thread title should have read:"San Diego tries to extricate foot from mouth"
zoning laws are constantly being tweaked without regard to religion or special interest groups

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@panzade,

zoning laws are constantly being tweaked without regard to religion or special interest groups
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not know where you live however, there are many very highly paid lobbies and lawyers in the South Florida area that does nothing but zoning cases.

Add to that one of the main reason some of our local politicians ended up serving time is for taking bribes from the above groups for zoning changes.

Hundred of millions of dollars riding on zoning.

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@panzade,

panzade wrote:

Quote:
this is a case of religion being used to manipulate existing law.

I don't know DTOM...my 2 cents, it's neither that nor the opposite...existing law trying to manipulate religion...rather Gunga's thread title should have read:"San Diego tries to extricate foot from mouth"
zoning laws are constantly being tweaked without regard to religion or special interest groups

true. it's entirely possible that the pastor has nothing in mind beyond spreading the word. in fact, that is what i hope it is.

but do you see how others latched onto it and blew it up into this big assualt on religious rights? and because of some of the players, i can't help but be a little suspicious. Smile

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@DontTreadOnMe,

My opinion is the good father is the one riding this to frame as the common sense thing to do is to go down and talk to the zoning people and see if an agreement could be reach at that level and if not to the city fathers not cry out that this is some anti-christian matter.

A I am sorry I had annoy my neighbors with the parking problems from my bible readings meetings and if I made sure to car pool my friends in could we drop the matter?

I had have dealing with zoning on this level without a great problem myself.

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@BillRM,

you're quite right...here in S Florida it is so

My sentence was clumsy and not very well thought out

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@DontTreadOnMe,

Quote:

but do you see how others latched onto it and blew it up into this big assualt on religious rights?

oh yeah...it's aggravating to have a discussion over a bogus premise and thread title

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@panzade,

panzade wrote:

oh yeah...it's aggravating to have a discussion over a bogus premise and thread title

it is. but at the same time silence is agreement. anyway.......

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@DontTreadOnMe,

anyway....I'm off to the local watering hole...I wanna see if Pittsburgh can crawl outta the hole vs Detroit..and I'm jonesin for some honey garlic wings...see ya later

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@Setanta,

The Supreme Court (currently) seems to view them as two distinct rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Quote:

The right of assembly was originally closely tied to the right to petition. One significant case involving the two rights was United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875). There, the Supreme Court held that citizens may "assemble for the purpose of petitioning Congress for a redress of grievances." Essentially, it was held that the right to assemble was secondary, while the right to petition was primary. Later cases, however, have expanded the meaning of the right to assembly. Hague v. CIO, 307 U.S. 496 (1939), for instance, refers to the right to assemble for the "communication of views on national questions" and for "disseminating information."

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/assembly/overview.aspx

Quote:

The U.S. Supreme Court recognized the importance of this freedom in the 1937 case De Jonge v. State of Oregon, writing that "the right to peaceable assembly is a right cognate to those of free speech and free press and is equally fundamental." According to the Court the right to assemble is "one that cannot be denied without violating those fundamental principles which lie at the base of all civil and political institutions."

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/faclibrary/case.aspx?case=DeJonge_v_Oregon

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@panzade,

have a beer for me. later.

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@panzade,

panzade wrote:

anyway....I'm off to the local watering hole...I wanna see if Pittsburgh can crawl outta the hole vs Detroit..and I'm jonesin for some honey garlic wings...see ya later

Damn, that sounds good. I'm on a diet and haven't had anything that good in a while.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

Chula Vista, of which Bonita is part of, is one of the fastest growing cities in
the entire US. It's located close to the Mexican border to the south, to the Pacific in the west and only could spread more and more into the east county with newly built subdivisions. The density is tremendously high to say the least. The freeways going to Chula Vista are the most congested and the morning/evening commute is wearing on everyone's patience. To avoid overcrowding an already crowded community and city, stringent zoning laws are needed.

We've had problems in our beach communities too where garages are
converted into bedrooms, walls torn down to make room for additional bedrooms and a cute 1000 sq ft. beach cottage becomes all of a sudden a 5-bedroom student pad. There is hardly any room for people let alone cars in some of the beach areas, and without a strict clampdown from the city, more conversions would have taken place.

Southern California and especially the cities along the beach are very desirable places and what goes in rural Pennsylvania where the Amish can
assemble by the hundreds without further problem, 10 additional cars in an already congested neighborhood can create havoc.

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indeed. that whole area down there has grown like nobody's business. even when i moved out here in the mid seventies, you could see c.v., escondido, ranhco bernardo and mira mesa as these sort of islands of people.

now you could pass a corona hand to hand from santa barbara to national city without taking more than a step or two.

cal worthington should be proud!

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

panzade wrote:

anyway....I'm off to the local watering hole...I wanna see if Pittsburgh can crawl outta the hole vs Detroit..and I'm jonesin for some honey garlic wings...see ya later

Damn, that sounds good. I'm on a diet and haven't had anything that good in a while.

Cycloptichorn

no kiddin'... i've given up everything else, now ms. dtom has informed me that my diet is not going well because of the suds. bummer, man. Laughing

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@DontTreadOnMe,

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

cal worthington should be proud!

aw gawd, don't you hate him? Even my kid says: "Not him again!"

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San Diego tries to ban Christianity

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