Bush-era interrogation may have worked, Obama official says

The military agency that helped to devise harsh interrogation techniques for use against terrorism suspects referred to the application of extreme duress as "torture" in a July 2002 document sent to the Pentagon's chief lawyer and warned that it would produce "unreliable information."

"The unintended consequence of a U.S. policy that provides for the torture of prisoners is that it could be used by our adversaries as justification for the torture of captured U.S. personnel," says the document, an unsigned two-page attachment to a memo by the military's Joint Personnel Recovery Agency. Parts of the attachment, obtained in full by The Washington Post, were quoted in a Senate report on harsh interrogation released this week.

Our own military referred to what was done as 'torture.'

Cycloptichorn

Also, I don't see how any international law can be enforced against the US.

Even if it was torture, so what?

Not at all.
I am simply quoting CI as to whether or not international law can be enforced against the US.
He seems to think it cant.

The War Crimes Act of 1996 was passed with overwhelming majorities by the United States Congress and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.

The law defines a war crime to include a "grave breach of the Geneva Conventions", specifically noting that "grave breach" should have the meaning defined in any convention (related to the laws of war) to which the U.S. is a party. The definition of "grave breach" in some of the Geneva Conventions have text that extend additional protections, but all the Conventions share the following text in common: "... committed against persons or property protected by the Convention: willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health."

The law applies if either the victim or the perpetrator is a national of the United States or a member of the U.S. armed forces. The penalty may be life imprisonment or death. The death penalty is only invoked if the conduct resulted in the death of one or more victims.

Tell me something,are your principles worth dying for?

If your principles tell you that killing is wrong, would you abandon those principles to defend yourself or your kids?
Or would you let your kids dies for the sake of your principles?

International law can be enforced against the US by the US courts. Under the constitution treaties entered into by the US have the force of US law.

parados wrote:

International law can be enforced against the US by the US courts.
Under the constitution treaties entered into by the US have the force of US law.

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Quote:

and if that didn't do the job, i suppose a few, or several, countries could form a "coalition" and attack america.
i'd rather hand over cheney, rumsfeld, wolfowitz, perle et al.

Your screen name belies your articulated willingness to relinquish American sovereignty.

In other words,
DontTreadOnMe prefers to exalt cowardice over sovereignty and independence. Right ?





David

Quote:

David, I guess the constitution only applies
when it enforces things you like (e.g., right to bear arms).

U made that very personal.

Quote:

The constitution prescribes that international agreements
to which we subscribe are the supreme law of the land.

Do u allege that the President and Congress have authority
to relinquish American sovereignty? I deny that thay do.

Do u allege that the Constitution can be amended
by effecting a treaty? I deny that too; so has the USSC.


Indeed, if the Constitution allowed that,
O boy coud treat with Mexico such that the presidents
and the legislatures woud endure incumbent for 25 years,
with no elections and according to your interpretation
of the Constitution, that woud be the end of THAT.




David

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

parados wrote:

International law can be enforced against the US by the US courts.
Under the constitution treaties entered into by the US have the force of US law.

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Quote:

and if that didn't do the job, i suppose a few, or several, countries could form a "coalition" and attack america.
i'd rather hand over cheney, rumsfeld, wolfowitz, perle et al.

Your screen name belies your articulated willingness to relinquish American sovereignty.

In other words,
DontTreadOnMe prefers to exalt cowardice over sovereignty and independence. Right ?

you sir, are an idiot.

you really don't understand what being the world leader means, do you?

of course you don't. how could you possibly understand what that means when you have bragged about how you and the other members of McCarthy's Rat Squad employed the exact same methods as the Communists you allege to have been trying to defeat.

being the leader of the world means that you lead by example. others have tried to "lead" the world by force and intimidation, look where it got 'em.

look where it got the paranoid McCarthy. bye-bye...

if you wanna talk about exalting cowardice, it is small minded, frightened little men like you. and McCarthy. and Dick Cheney and pretty much any right-wing radio warrior these days.

you pretend to be Mr. Real American around here, but you proved your willingness to "pull down, tear and wipe" with the constitution in the fifties. and now here you are again, along with cowards like dick cheney vomiting out the same paranoid bile and doing to the same thing to the fundamental goodness of america what you did then.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

parados wrote:

International law can be enforced against the US by the US courts.
Under the constitution treaties entered into by the US have the force of US law.

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Quote:

and if that didn't do the job, i suppose a few, or several, countries could form a "coalition" and attack america.
i'd rather hand over cheney, rumsfeld, wolfowitz, perle et al.

Your screen name belies your articulated willingness to relinquish American sovereignty.

In other words,
DontTreadOnMe prefers to exalt cowardice over sovereignty and independence. Right ?

Quote:

you sir, are an idiot.

The relative power or paucity of my intellect is off topic.
I doubt your powers of analysis thereof anyway.

Quote:

you really don't understand what being the world leader means, do you?

It means nothing; America is not leading the world anywhere.
Maybe u think that we order it around?

Quote:

of course you don't.

If u choose to answer your own questions,
then Y do u ask them in the first place ??

Quote:

how could you possibly understand what that means

I already told u that it means nothing.

Quote:

when you have bragged about how you and the other members
of McCarthy's Rat Squad employed the exact same methods
as the Communists you allege to have been trying to defeat.

That 's what fighting a war means; apparently u don 't know that.
Senator Joe McCarthy had his heart in the right place.
He injured many commies; that is better than most Americans can truly say.
I join my mind in loving harmony with McCarthy, General Augusto Pinochet
and the Anti-communists of Indonesia
who blessed us all with the massacre of commies there in 1965.
Thru all of their efforts, and those of Ronald Reagan,
we succeeded in WINNING the Third World War.

Did that break your commie heart?

Quote:

being the leader of the world means that you lead by example.

The duties of the US Government are defined in the US Constitution.
Nowhere does it require us to do that.
We are free of any such obligation.
I deny your allegation.

Quote:

others have tried to "lead" the world by force and intimidation, look where it got 'em.

We have no purpose to lead the world ANYWHERE.
Let the world go screw itself; we are concerned about ourselves.
I am concerned about MYSELF & my friends.

Quote:

look where it got the paranoid McCarthy. bye-bye...

He is in the same place that u are going:
to the grave, but HE did so with glory; can u say the same ?

Quote:

if you wanna talk about exalting cowardice,
it is small minded,

I don 't know what small minded means.
Perhaps u 'll enlighten me.

Quote:

frightened little men like you.

Frightened of WHAT??
I fear nothing. I have no emotion, other than being mildly annoyed at u at the moment.
As I said hereinabove,
we already won the 3rd World War, thanks be unto
Reagan, McCarthy, Pinochet et al.
We wiped our red, white & blue asses with guys like u and Stalin.

Quote:

and McCarthy. and Dick Cheney and pretty much any right-wing radio warrior these days.

you pretend to be Mr. Real American around here,

YES.
The following statement is intended to be factually objective,
rather than based upon emotion:
your post shows a lack of basic understanding of Americanism:
meaning self-defense, Individualism, libertarianism, hedonism and laissez faire free enterprize.
Libertarianism does not include allowing anyone to attack us with impunity.

Quote:

but you proved your willingness to "pull down, tear and wipe" with the constitution in the fifties.

That statement is mindless foolishness.
If u wished to be analytical, or logical, u 'd have indicated
which parts of the Constitution I allegedly pulled down, etc.
I re-iterate my commitment to the Constitution,
with NO liberalism. I ratify and embrace all of my
Anti-commie efforts.

Quote:

and now here you are again, along with cowards like dick cheney
vomiting out the same paranoid bile and doing to the same thing
to the fundamental goodness of america what you did then.

U merely hurl yourself down into the lower pits of emotion
whence u hurl semi-hysterical acrimony; pointless, but ineffective.

There was never anything cowardly about Dick Cheney.
He has a fine and brilliant pro-freedom mind.
I hold him in the very highest esteem.
I wish that he 'd have been President instead of W.
The Bushes were never conservative Americans.
Cheney was and is; may the BEAUTY of his life be exceeded only
by his ever increasing JOY and WEALTH !


In the event that u wish to go thru another cycle of this
thrilling dialog, I suggest that u begin a new post
because this one is becoming too intricate to be legible.

I wonder what it IS
that u consider to be the "fundamental goodness" of America ?






David

see? i told you i didn't think you got it.

i will say this though. i regret having called you an idiot.
that was wrong of me. sorry.

about the rest; i stand by it.

china. vietnam. cuba. commies.

apparently, the rumour of communism's death has been greatly exaggerated.