Reply
Tue 10 Mar, 2009 04:55 pm
I work as a software developer.
We are a team of 8 people who are working in a big organization.
4 of those 8 people are software developers including me.
We (the developers) are staying in a small room that is separate from the other team.
One of those developers is my technical lead, and I report to him.
My problem was with that tech lead and another developer.
These two , spend all their day making fun of other members of the team.
They make fun of everything that the other member of the team do or say.
They make fun of their names (because some have non-English name)
They make fun of their accents
They make fun of their behavior
They make fun of their work.
Nothing those member do , satisfy or be accepted by these two.
And I don't mean they just say one comment or two a day.
I mean they are making fun of others the whole day.
Yes, the whole day.
Beside they are sarcastic all the time.
Specially the technical lead.
He never say something without being sarcastic or add some smart ass comment.
In the same room, there is another developer who is not playing their game, but at the same time he deosn't say anything.
for me, I get very triggered by their behavior.
But I didn't know what to do.
I was confronting them, but unfortunately I didn't do it with a friendly way.
And there were my problems started.
Specially with my lead, who hated me a lot.
He hated me , and I think the reason because I was confronting him
I didn't want to tell the managers, because I don't have a proof that they are doing that.
Anyway, the conflict between me and the tech lead was obvious to everyone.
And after one year of this hell.
It was a hell for me.
The tech lead was trying to catch any mistake that I was doing.
I complained to my project manager (who was a target of their remarks behind his back), but he didn't do anything to me.
Finally I asked the management to move me to another project.
I didn't say the real reason, but I said, that I am more interested in the technologies of that other project.
and finally they started downsizing in my company, and the project I am moving to was downsized and they laid off people there.
and they wanted to downsize my project and the project manager chose me.
It is not about performance, because with all honesty, I was the most productive person there, and the most knowledgeable.
I want to know where are my mistakes, and what I could do better?
What I did wrong.
It bother me a lot , because I didn't learn any lesson from it.
What I did wrong?
How can I prevent it next time?
What I could do better?
Can you please give me your advice?
Thanks
@gkar68,
gkar68 wrote:
I work as a software developer.
We are a team of 8 people who are working in a big organization.
4 of those 8 people are software developers including me.
We (the developers) are staying in a small room that is separate from the other team.
One of those developers is my technical lead, and I report to him.
My problem was with that tech lead and another developer.
These two , spend all their day making fun of other members of the team.
They make fun of everything that the other member of the team do or say.
They make fun of their names (because some have non-English name)
They make fun of their accents
They make fun of their behavior
They make fun of their work.
Nothing those member do , satisfy or be accepted by these two.
And I don't mean they just say one comment or two a day.
I mean they are making fun of others the whole day.
Yes, the whole day.
Beside they are sarcastic all the time.
Specially the technical lead.
He never say something without being sarcastic or add some smart ass comment.
In the same room, there is another developer who is not playing their game, but at the same time he deosn't say anything.
for me, I get very triggered by their behavior.
But I didn't know what to do.
I was confronting them, but unfortunately I didn't do it with a friendly way.
And there were my problems started.
Specially with my lead, who hated me a lot.
He hated me , and I think the reason because I was confronting him
I didn't want to tell the managers, because I don't have a proof that they are doing that.
Anyway, the conflict between me and the tech lead was obvious to everyone.
And after one year of this hell.
It was a hell for me.
The tech lead was trying to catch any mistake that I was doing.
I complained to my project manager (who was a target of their remarks behind his back), but he didn't do anything to me.
Finally I asked the management to move me to another project.
I didn't say the real reason, but I said, that I am more interested in the technologies of that other project.
and finally they started downsizing in my company, and the project I am moving to was downsized and they laid off people there.
and they wanted to downsize my project and the project manager chose me.
It is not about performance, because with all honesty, I was the most productive person there, and the most knowledgeable.
I want to know where are my mistakes, and what I could do better?
What I did wrong.
It bother me a lot , because I didn't learn any lesson from it.
What I did wrong?
How can I prevent it next time?
What I could do better?
Can you please give me your advice?
Thanks
Audio-tape their poor behavior and play selections of their worst comments for management. Write emails to yourself every day documenting the things said and how they affected you emotionally and affected your work.
Keep a record at all times... it sucks to have to defend yourself at the office but that's the way it is unfortunately.
Cycloptichorn
Yep, keep a record, but tell your boss. Again. And again. Then tell their bosses if they don't help. Go to Human Resources. Do not handle such things alone.
@gkar68,
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are Indian and they are not. Not that it should matter, but there is a very definite hostility among many American software developers towards Indian developers. Other than documenting the hostility, there isn't much you can do. I've found that headphones work wonders.
@FreeDuck,
Thanks everyone for reply
Yes I am not a Caucasian.
And they are.
But at the same time, they are making fun at other Caucasian people, which make me skip the idea that it is about racism.
I thought to record their conversation, but I thought this is very low.
Right now, it is too late, because I am ending at end of March.
And I don't think it is professional for me to go now to the management and complain.
But it is a lesson for my next job.
Go talk to a lawyer.
I am sorry for how you were treated. This type of behavior is inexcusable.
This type of behavior is illegal. There are laws against creating a hostile workforce, and there are laws about making layoff decisions based on ethnicity.
It seems to me that if there is a clear pattern to the people who were laid off (i.e. Indians lost their job and Caucasians kept theirs) you would have good grounds for a lawsuit. At the very least, they are obligated to explain the reasons you were chosen to lay off (i.e. they need to prove they have a good reason other than your ethnicity).
Discrimination lawsuits are an important part of workplace law. You will probably be able to consult with a anti-discrimination lawyer for free to see if you have grounds for a lawsuit.
If this is the case-- you really should push it with a lawsuit. Not only can you get compensation for how you were treated... it is also important for the society at large that discrimination is punished.
@gkar68,
gkar68 wrote:
Thanks everyone for reply
Yes I am not a Caucasian.
And they are.
But at the same time, they are making fun at other Caucasian people, which make me skip the idea that it is about racism.
I thought to record their conversation, but I thought this is very low.
Right now, it is too late, because I am ending at end of March.
And I don't think it is professional for me to go now to the management and complain.
But it is a lesson for my next job.
As much as ebrown has a point, I think you have the right attitude. There are jobs where people are not busy creating little fiefdoms and alliances instead of actually building something. There are places where people are treated respectfully (because bad coders come with all kinds of names and accents, and sometimes high profile degrees from awe-inspiring institutions) even in this economy. The market has slowed for those of us who write software but it is stronger than many other sectors. You will find something else. And hopefully you have someone other than the two dickheads that you can use for a reference.
Also, you can take some comfort in the knowledge that the team will now almost certainly self-destruct. The lead no longer has his favorite whipping boy so he's going to find a new target. Eventually, it will just be him and his house boy with no-one left to put down and blame things on. And they probably won't deliver.
@FreeDuck,
The issue for me is discrimination
Discrimination should not be tolerated; not when it is used to harass employees, and certainly not when it is a factor in firing decisions. (Of course, I don't know all the details in this case and can't really judge if this was discrimination or not).
But...
If a misogynist boss, who made hostile and sexist remarks to female employees, then chose women first to be fired... I wouldn't think of suggesting that women in this company who don't complain "have a good attitude".
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:If a misogynist boss, who made hostile and sexist remarks to female employees, then chose women first to be fired... I wouldn't think of suggesting that women in this company who don't complain "have a good attitude".
Of course not. But I still would recommend leaving the company. Not to tolerate the behavior but because a situation like that is probably not going to get much better even if you do complain, litigate etc. Regardless of whether you fight the discrimination, you are probably better served personally if you look for a better work environment.
Also... in the future, if you are being harassed. The professional thing to do is to report it, in writing, to the HR supervisor (or a person with a similar position). You complaint should have exactly what happened, and what was said, along with names times and dates.
All but the smallest of organizations have a set procedure for dealing with these types of complaints. They take them very seriously because the legal consequences for them if they don't are quite severe. If you complain in writing, the problem will be addressed by the organization 99% of the time. (This will involve strict rules imposed on the manager about what she can or can't say or do, as well as accountability... they will follow up with you to make sure that the situation is dealt with).
Making this complaint not only stops the harassment, it can also protect your career. It certainly doesn't help anything to work in an impossible situation.
Just in case it matters.... if you are working on a visa, the rules are the same (i.e. just as strict). The laws prevent them from retaliating (i.e. firing you) simply because you made a complaint (meaning they need a well documented reason for letting you go).
@Robert Gentel,
Agreed Robert. If I were in this situation, I would most likely start looking for another job... as I was filing a written complaint.
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:
The issue for me is discrimination
Of course it is, that's your angle and I respect that.
Quote:
If a misogynist boss, who made hostile and sexist remarks to female employees, then chose women first to be fired... I wouldn't think of suggesting that women in this company who don't complain "have a good attitude".
You rightly said " (Of course, I don't know all the details in this case and can't really judge if this was discrimination or not)." The good attitude I was referring to was one of moving forward, looking for another job, and putting it behind him. You don't know why he was chosen, but in these situations the team leader is often asked who is most expendable. The lead didn't like him and was a dick so he picked him. That's life, unfortunately. You're trying to compare two things that you have no idea whether they are the same or even similar in order to make a point.
And since you so badly want to make me a hypocrite, yes, his attitude is the same one that I have when the situation involves myself and hostility, as it has in the past. Move forward -- people who act and think like that are hurting themselves mostly.
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck, I was trying to offer another angle to the debate in my normal (sometimes overaggressive) manner-- it was not at all intended to be a personal attack. I had no intention of making you a hypocrite. I am sorry if I came across that way (and on reading my post again, I can understand why you felt this way).
I feel strongly that suspected discrimination of any kind should be reported as soon as it happens. Almost all US companies (except the very smallest) have procedures in place to deal with these complaints. Even if these suspicions are incorrect, they will be addressed. This makes the workplace better for the complainant, other employees vulnerable to harassment and even to the company (harassment doesn't lead to a productive workplace)
As far as legal action after one has been fired... yes, the complete facts are necessary before making this decision. And, the risks and consequences of taking this route are higher. It is important to me, as a member of society, that really discriminatory practices are punished-- this is particularly important for more vulnerable groups of workers.
@ebrown p,
No need to apologize, though I appreciate the sentiment.
ebrown p wrote:
I feel strongly that suspected discrimination of any kind should be reported as soon as it happens. Almost all US companies (except the very smallest) have procedures in place to deal with these complaints. Even if these suspicions are incorrect, they will be addressed. This makes the workplace better for the complainant, other employees vulnerable to harassment and even to the company (harassment doesn't lead to a productive workplace)
As far as legal action after one has been fired... yes, the complete facts are necessary before making this decision. And, the risks and consequences of taking this route are higher. It is important to me, as a member of society, that really discriminatory practices are punished-- this is particularly important for more vulnerable groups of workers.
I respect that about you, ebrown, and agree that it should be reported and addressed when it happens. I just think that ship has sailed in our friend's case here. We are mostly in agreement, just looking from different angles. From my perspective, the job market is tightening but there are still some good jobs out there in our field. I don't think he has time to waste. Venting, on the other hand, well that's what we're here for.
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