7
   

What is wrong here, why is this happening?

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 03:50 pm
Quote:
Hopefully we will become more responsible and less dangerous as a nation as American conservatism starts a downhill roll.


Frank, the disconnect between this thread and the one quoted from above is troubling.

How does a nation that shirks responsibility in the very areas that are the most important ever hope to achieve "more responsible"?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 03:58 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Frank, the disconnect between this thread and the one quoted from above is troubling.

How does a nation that shirks responsibility in the very areas that are the most important ever hope to achieve "more responsible"?


I don't know...and I acknowledge that I offered this sort of the way a theist might offer, "I pray to GOD that..."

America IS out of control. The fact that we can elect people like George Bush and Dick Cheney...and allow them access to our military might...scares the **** out of me...and I cannot imagine it does not do the same to people all over the world.

The American right also scares me. We have way, way, way too many ultra right wingers in our military.

(I'm not even going to finish that thought!)

For the good of the world, JTT...I hope we get our act in order.

As far as I am concerned, we are a decent, well-meaning people. But I dare guess that mid-1930's German and Japan were filled with decent well-meaning people also.

YOU PEOPLE IN OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE AN OBLIGATION ALSO...to give us the back of your hand when we deserve it. There are too goddam many world leaders who just are unwilling to get on our bad side.

Gotta stop!
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 04:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Hear hear!

I said in some other thread, can't remember which one, ya just gotta stop with the honesty, Frank.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 04:12 pm
@JTT,
I cannot tell you how much it hurts me to do it, JTT.

I want as much as anyone to be proud of my country...of the people with whom I live and interact.

To acknowledge our deficiencies...and to bear up to the scorn of the pseudo-patriots of the right when you do--is not a fun thing. Sorta like calling attention to some of the deficiencies in your parents.

But sometimes you just gotta do it.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 04:13 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
YOU PEOPLE IN OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE AN OBLIGATION ALSO


Oh I absolutely agree, Frank.
Britain has a responsibility.
Australia has a responsibility.
All countries in the so-called "coalition of the willing" should be held to account for their actions as well.
We cannot all pretend that all is well & go blithely on our way because Bush, Blair & Howard (in my own country) have now lost government. Fact is, we demonstrated in our millions agains their blind subservience to the US administration at the time. They didn't listen to the people who'd elected them, though opposition was glaring them in the face. These "leaders" should be held accountable for war crimes, too. Not swanning around the world (as they are) as some sort of "elder statesmen"!
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 04:14 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
I said in some other thread, can't remember which one, ya just gotta stop with the honesty, Frank.


And apparently, you have taken your own advice and stopped being honest.

You have posted absolutely ZERO EVIDENCE to back up your initial claim, and have refused to do so.

So, since this thread is based on a lie, nothing said on it can be taken seriously.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 04:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
This is the part that I just don't get, Frank. These people are not your country any more than a member of organized crime who donates the proceeds of crime to a community are really part of that community.

Pull out and put away the criminals wherever they lurk. Doing so can only polish a country's image.

Speaking up about criminality should never be a cause for sadness.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 04:26 pm
@msolga,
Another hear hear!
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 04:45 pm
(Nice talking with you, Frank!) Wink
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 05:06 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
So, since this thread is based on a lie, nothing said on it can be taken seriously.


I appreciate that you're frustrated, MM, but you shouldn't let that lead you to illogical conclusions.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 06:30 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
This is the part that I just don't get, Frank. These people are not your country any more than a member of organized crime who donates the proceeds of crime to a community are really part of that community.

Pull out and put away the criminals wherever they lurk. Doing so can only polish a country's image.

Speaking up about criminality should never be a cause for sadness.


This is about expediency for me. We are in an ocean of **** right now here in the USA. We do not need any more divisiveness than absolutely necessary...and going after these miscreants will only add to the considerable divisiveness already smelling up America.

You really do not know what it is like to deal with our American conservatives. They are a breed apart!

I understand the people who want them tried.

I don't. I do not want another round of what these assholes did to Bill Clinton.

Disagree if you have to. No problem.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 06:35 pm
@JTT,
Then why havent you posted ANYTHING to verify your claim that Bush ADMITTED to being a war criminal?
If he did that, you should be able to provide proof of that.
Also, if he did that every liberal/left leaning person here on A2K would be shouting it from the rooftops.

I have asked you to verify your claim, yet you have refused.
Why is that?
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2009 10:15 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Re: Msolga

Another hear hear!


Yes

Quote:

"The debate here isn't only how to protect the country. It's how to protect our values.

If cruelty is no longer declared unlawful, but instead is applied as a matter of policy, it alters the fundamental relationship of man to government. It destroys the whole notion of individual rights. The Constitution recognizes that man has an inherent right, not bestowed by the state or laws, to personal dignity, including the right to be free of cruelty. It applies to all human beings, not just in America -- even those designated as 'unlawful enemy combatants.' If you make this exception the whole Constitution crumbles."
- Alberto J. Mora, former Navy General Counsel [Feb. 27, 2006 issue of The New Yorker, entitled "The Memo"]


Quote:
... I expect those people to be treated humanely ... If not, the people who mistreat the prisoners will be treated as war criminals."
" George W. Bush, March 23, 2003



I believe that if torturers and murders are seen to escape justice- this can
only lead to more criminal activity and more injustice.
Let the law to its job

hey - JTT
I respect your stamina

endy
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 May, 2009 01:27 pm
@Endymion,
Quote:
hey - JTT
I respect your stamina


Thanks, Endy, I appreciate that. But I'm only able keep it up because of the unflagging support of people like Mysteryman.
0 Replies
 
 

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