$13.00 a Week. Is everyone Happy?

That's not what I said, of course.


Yes I do - which is why I think the extended unemployment benefits are a good idea. Shouldn't you think so too, by your own point here?

For a lot of people who have jobs but are living on the edge of their financial budgets because of suppressed wages and rent/cost of living increases in their neighborhoods, it means being able to stay at their job rather than having to quit their job and use their savings to pay for all the expenses to relocate to a more affordable area where they will not have an easy time finding a job again for several months and won't have any savings left to live on in the meantime.

This is the key that everyone who supports this bill is missing.

Give people $400 this year, or $600, or $800, it won't matter. People are hoarding money because they're afraid for their future. They saw their homes drop by 20-50% in just the last 2 years. With that drop they saw much of their net worth decline as well. Additionally they've seen their retirement income decrease by 40% in the last year.

Spending has gone down NOT because people don't have the money, but because people don't want to spend the money they DO have.

You are not going to fix the economy by giving people an extra $400 this year. Having an extra $400 will not make people feel comfortable with losing half their life savings w/in the last couple of years.

Tax breaks will have some effect but it won't have a full dollar for dollar effect.

I know it has been posted somewhere, probably by nimh, that tax cuts produce less than one dollar of stimulus for every dollar it costs.

Assume a tax break will result in about half the money going into the economy. Spending on unemployment benefits however will have it all going to the economy since unemployment money doesn't cover much more than necessities.

I would be complaining more if it were larger. I would never propose that a larger tax break is needed. I disagree with the Republicans on that issue (among MANY others).

I can think of no time where I would ever propose cutting taxes or giving tax breaks when our government is engaged in deficit spending, or we continue to have a national debt.

And the Democrats are really shooting themselves in the foot with this one. For 8 years they've talked about how good the economy was under Clinton before Bush's tax cuts. Now, there's a "crisis" (which I do think is debatable), and the first thing they do is cut taxes. Seriously, credibility is gone on that issue.

The GDP is something like 12 Trillion a year. I would expect that 2/3rds of this money will be saved or used to pay off debt. That leaves 65 billion or so for new spending. Thats .5% bump in GDP, and it's very temporary. That small of a bump will be meaningless the next quarter.

I am pissed that we are borrowing this money Nimh! I'm pretty much being forced to take this $500 today, and the government is going to ask me to give them $700 in 5 years to pay it back. The government is trying to FORCE me to charge up my national debt credit card.






As far as your last point. In my view, the economy is broken because Americans have started to understand that an economy that is based on borrowing money is one doomed to failure. We just saw trillions of dollars in home values and net worth dissappear. People are fearful of losing their job. They just lost half their life savings. For people in this boat (the middle class), $500 this year is not going to fix their fears. It will not get them spending money again. It will not increase demand. It is too small an amount on a per person basis.

From the government's standpoint, they have just chosen to increase our national debt by 20-30%. That is a lot of money for the government to spend. It's not a lot per person, but when aggregated it is a load of money.

It's like the lottery. Tons of people can afford to buy a $1 lottery ticket, but the winner just hit a jackpot. In this case it's reversed. The government has just given away the bank, all to give $1 to the people.

$50 is 1/50 of my total mortgage payment (I am responsible for half). Diddly squat.

I'm not living all that large either nimh. I bought a $300,000 home, now worth $250,000. My mortgage payment is well w/in what most financial experts recommend.

I do not support the AMT tax cut either.

I would have prefered no tax cut. To take a tax cut now is akin to pulling out the Visa and buying an HDTV while my electricity is being shut off.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to include you in that. I actually missed your post in there and was only talking to Tool #1 and Tool #2.

My apologies to you.

Thank you.

I agree with this. I'm not entirely-opposed to unemployment benefits. If we're going to spend this money, I'd much rather see it be done there.

We still should not be propping up with economy of ours which is based 70% on consumers borrowing money from China and spending it on imported crap from China.

I've read just as many articles that speak in favor of the 13/week program as I have that have opposed the plan. The counter argument is that because it's spread out over the rest of the year the stimulus won't be spent quickly enough to keep people employed, and that it will only slightly delay the inevitable.

Let's face it, the only sensible thing to do is nothing. The fact is that no one knows if it will work; but we're sure putting a lot of money at risk based on the fear mongering from congress and the president.

Do you really think that someone being able to keep their cable service, or eat at a buffet is going to fix the economy?

I came from a very poor household. My parents made less than 40k combined and I'm the oldest of 6 children. We grew up on welfare. I know what it's like to be poor, and at least half of my brothers/sisters are there now. I know that I give them money pretty often and it never seems to help their situation beyond immediate gratification. Their personal economy is not positively influenced by me giving them money.

Keep supporting this spending bill if you feel you must and keep hoping it will work (I know I do), but be prepared for it to fail, and be prepared when your children ask you why you allowed this to happen to America.

I don't need any extra money to make my life better.

I just need my house to return to 2006 levels so I'm not sitting with a -50,000 net worth.

Honestly, if I just had 5% equity in my home again I wouldn't sweat my future at all.

I don't even need the one course I've had in macroeconomics to know this. My local bank just cut savings interest to .5%. If that's all they are willing to pay for money, there is no shortage.

Not sure I'm following the logic here.

Are you saying that the low interest rate on savings is a sign that the banks don't need any money?

Sure. Interest is the price of money. If the price is down, doesn't that seem a good sign that either supply is high, or demand low?

It seems to me in your arguments you are assuming everyone is in the same position as you, so the plan won't work (BTW, as I've said before, I don't know if this is the best plan, how well it will work, etc. I'm just not ready to immediately blast it down until I know what other options are out there. So far I've got big Tex saying don't give anything to anyone, and you primarily, if not entirely concerned with the value of your home)

So you're upside down on your house. You want it to go back up to where you had 5% equity in it.

Let me tell you a little secret. In a decade, regardless of what is going on now, you will have more than 5% equity in your house. If you take that $50 and put it directly into your principle each month, even better.

Live in your house like it's your home, and not an investment, and after a while you'll see it's turned into one while you weren't paying attention. You gotta look at the big picture. Again, I'm not saying "WOW, $13 a week, everyone should be so grateful for that and just take it and count themselves fortunate." But, unlike others, I can see a lot of good a person can do with it, that will reap benefits not this very minute, but not that far down the line either.

Getting back to how this $13 a week won't help you.

I just ran an amortization table on your $300K house with a 30 year mortgage @ 8% interest. Let's just say that's what it is for simplicities sake.

2 scenerios.

You just bought the house and put the $52 extra into principle each month. After 12 months, you be up to payment #38 on your schedule. Over 3 years instead of 1. Over 2 years of EXTRA principle payments made because of $13 a week.

or....

You've owned your home already for 5 years, and start adding in $52 starting with payment 61.

Well, you don't do as well, but guess what? you just got ahead 18 months. You're now up to payment 90 rather than payment $72.

So don't tell me $13 does nothing for you.

*******

Also, you ask me if someone going out to a buffet will "fix" the economy. No, one person doing that wouldn't have an effect.

Again, you're assuming most people are in your situation. Many, many people, when Friday rolls around look in their pocket to see what is left. If there's nothing, they stay home.

If there's $5 or $10 dollars, they go and buy the lightbulbs they need, gas for the car, a bunch of flowers for the bride, a couple of tacos, a paperback book, a CD, can of coffee, a starbucks, some hair coloring.....and they'll something else the next time they have the extra money.

So many people getting so many things, even if not every week (they might save up a couple of weeks for a pair of jeans for their kid) will have an effect.

You made the choice to buy a house where $50 is 1/50th of your payment. Now your choice is what are you going to do today to make it easier in a time that's past the end of your nose?

If you think that's bullshit about putting your money in your house, that's too bad.

In 1991 I bought a back foreclosure for a little over $50K, I literally put a dollar a day in an envelope every day I came home, sending it off every 3 or 4 months to the principle. I did this during the worst financial time in my life, when a dollar was a stretch.

Things got better, we put $150K into the house (paying no interest, except a couple-three hundred dollars), paid off the house within 15 years, and today it's worth about $500K on the market.

I stimulated the economy by over $200,000 at least, for a dollar a day.

Just think what I could have done with $13 a week.

I am just telling this to show not just you maporsche, but everyone, that if you take what you get, continuing to seek more but not bitching about what you've got to work with at that moment, you can make a difference.

I just spent my $13 for this week...did you feel that jolt to the economy?

If not, wait until next week and I'll try again...LMAO!!!

Apparently not much of a jolt...Dow is down 45 points.

Governing by the Dow? Retarded idea.

Cycloptichorn

I guess for those who have zero assets...yeah it would be a retarded idea!

I just spent another $4.87 on a bagel and some juice....feel that jolt?

Apparently not...Dow is down 36.32 points...