17
   

Flight 1549 praise is being over done.

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 09:58 pm
@Butrflynet,
Quote:

The fact that it did occur off the shore of New York and New Jersey in the middle of winter in freezing temperatures meant anyone in the water had less than 10 minutes before they died.


I don't think that's quite accurate, BFN. Weren't people in the Potomac for much longer, in a much more serious situation, ie. crash landing?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 09:59 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
The very rear passengers was more then likely at somewhat greater risk of harm due to the need to drag the tail of the plane in the water first to reduce the speed before the main body of the plane contact the water but that is a minor factor that the pilot could not do anything about in any case.


if the wings are not level as it hits the water thus the plane cartwheels they are all dead, so in that sense the risk is equal. However, due to the way the plane will naturally sit in the water if there are major cracks in the tube or if anyone opens the rear emergency doors the rear instantly floods. Those in the rear all die. the risks are not equal.

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:01 pm
@Intrepid,
Quote:
You would be better served using your time learning to write proper English.


What's with this bullshit; that's three times so far in this thread. I hope that it's the end of it.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:03 pm
@hawkeye10,
True however there was just how it happen to be and not something that the command pilot would have any control over one way or another.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:06 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
A Testament to Experienced Airline Flight Personnel Doing Their Jobs


Quote:
“The reactions of all members of the crew, the split second decision making and the handling of this emergency and evacuation was `text book` and an example to us all.


Bill said much the same, more than once,

"True it was indeed some skillful flying and a great deal of luck combine with an ideal ditching location. "

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:15 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
The essential point is the crew handled the aircraft well,...


Quote:
I think the crew did a superlative job and deserve the acclaim they have received. Others, unburdened by any relevant knowledge or experience may think otherwise: a small few of them may even be in the grip of enough idiotic and juvenile self importance to actually argue otherwise. They deserve the derision they get.


Make up your mind, George, did the crew do "well" or did they do a "superlative job"?

And people who question the tendency of the press in the USA to make heroes out of anyoldbody is certainly something that should be questioned.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:15 pm
@hawkeye10,
The rear door was opened.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The claim is that he is a hero is based upon the results, but he can only be a hero for real if he made the right call.


I can't imagine how this could be true, HE.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:19 pm
@georgeob1,
A dead stick landing at Laguardia might have been possible, however the down side to any misjudgement would likely have been a fatal crash into urban structures. The distance in the chart looks deceptively favorable to the Laguardia option. However it still would have required a 60 plus degree turn and possibly more to correctly line up with the runway. The effect of a turn on reducing the gliding distance is very strong -- a fairly standard disaster scenario in such cases is an unwise attempt to turn back to the point of departure. Moreover, the field landing would have required that the flaps and landing gear be lowered - both actions would have very substantially reduced the aircraft gliding distance - in addition to the turn - and it is not at all clear that the aircraft could have made it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A slow and very minor banking turn would seem off hand not to reduce the glide range greatly. An almost zero bank rubber sliding turn is possible even if it go strongly against the training of every pilot in the world.

As far as the wheels being down I would assume that the lowing of them would be delay to the last possible moment and once more not greatly reducing the glide range.

As far as flaps needing to be down I am not at all sure how long the runways are at JFK or the stopping distance of that model of airbus with brakes alone and fully loaded.

Coming in hot even with brakes alone and a full fuel load might be possilbke for a narrow body jet of that type.

Kind of hard on the tires however.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:20 pm
@ossobuco,
kinda
Quote:
A frightened passenger in the back of the ditched US Airways jetliner in the Hudson River flooded the rear cabin by pushing aside a flight attendant and muscling open the rear door, according to the first definitive interviews Sunday from crew members.

Flight attendant Doreen Welsh, the only crew member stationed in the rear of the aircraft of Flight 1549 on Jan. 15, said in an interview with Katie Couric broadcast on "60 Minutes" Sunday that after the landing, a passenger pushed her aside and unlatched the rear door.

"Just enough that the water came flooding in," said Welsh, in an interview conducted with the other four crew members of the flight.


"And I went back twice and tried to re-close it. It would only go so far. It wouldn't stop, and the water was just rising.

"You know, garbage cans were floating, coffee pots were floating ... It was crazy back there."

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1399135.html

not preventing the reart door from being cracked by a passenger was clearly a failure on the part of the crew. We also know that in the cockpit nobody hit the ditching button, which prevents water from coming into the cabin though the air system. Perfection was not had on this day.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 02:39 am
@hawkeye10,
How do you expect a woman to prevent some goon from muscling his way past her to open the door? However, given your posted views on women, I am not surprised at this idiotic statement you made.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 02:47 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
If it wasn't entertaining to watch your poor command of the English language ...


Another cheap shot; come on, Intrepid, please grow up.




JTT wrote:
Quote:
Why am I not the least bit surprised to see such a cheap shot come from you, George?


You accuse others of exactly what you are doing. Your judgemental attitude does not put you above anyone else.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 02:48 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
You would be better served using your time learning to write proper English.


What's with this bullshit; that's three times so far in this thread. I hope that it's the end of it.


Sensitive, are we? You seem to be spending your time looking for little snippets from posts to post your self righteous crap. Oh, well...carry on.
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 05:13 am
@JTT,
According to the chart at the link below, with the water temperature in the high 30's unconsciousness would occur in as little as 15 minutes and deaths in as little as 30 minutes. Those who were in the colder air after being wet, had even shorter survival times.

http://www.usps.org/national/ensign/uspscompass/compassarchive/compassv1n1/hypothermia.htm

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-plane-crash16-2009jan16,0,2620432.story

Quote:
Some had to plunge briefly into the river -- where the water was in the high 30s -- before they could be pulled to safety. The air temperature hovered around 20.



BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 05:55 am
@Butrflynet,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to the chart at the link below, with the water temperature in the high 30's unconsciousness would occur in as little as 15 minutes and deaths in as little as 30 minutes. Those who were in the colder air after being wet, had even shorter survival times.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is why ditching off New York where rescue is only minutes away is one of the ideal factors working for this flight.

Survival rate would had not been 100 percent even in this near perfect ditching in a cold climate, almost anywhere else on the planet.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 06:35 am
@BillRM,
For somebody who thought the praise was being overdone, you are sure keeping this thread in the forefront. Even if you think that praise is not due. Smile
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 09:48 am
@Intrepid,
Quote:
You accuse others of exactly what you are doing. Your judgemental attitude does not put you above anyone else.


It's simply that pulling this crap about language is one of the most despicable ploys one can use when debating an issue, Intrepid.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 09:50 am
@Intrepid,
Quote:
Sensitive, are we? You seem to be spending your time looking for little snippets from posts to post your self righteous crap. Oh, well...carry on.


It's not hard to notice. This sort of stupidity leaps right out, Intrepid.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 09:58 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
You accuse others of exactly what you are doing. Your judgemental attitude does not put you above anyone else.


It's simply that pulling this crap about language is one of the most despicable ploys one can use when debating an issue, Intrepid.


The comment had nothing to do with debate. It was an observation and I am not the first, nor probably the last, to mention it.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 09:59 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
Sensitive, are we? You seem to be spending your time looking for little snippets from posts to post your self righteous crap. Oh, well...carry on.


It's not hard to notice. This sort of stupidity leaps right out, Intrepid.


If it is so noticeable, why do you waste your time pointing it out?
 

 
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