Flight 1549 praise is being over done.

@hawkeye10,

I checked the referenced chart & plot of the aircraft track and watched the pilot's interview.

A dead stick landing at Laguardia might have been possible, however the down side to any misjudgement would likely have been a fatal crash into urban structures. The distance in the chart looks deceptively favorable to the Laguardia option. However it still would have required a 60 plus degree turn and possibly more to correctly line up with the runway. The effect of a turn on reducing the gliding distance is very strong -- a fairly standard disaster scenario in such cases is an unwise attempt to turn back to the point of departure. Moreover, the field landing would have required that the flaps and landing gear be lowered - both actions would have very substantially reduced the aircraft gliding distance - in addition to the turn - and it is not at all clear that the aircraft could have made it.

Alternatively, it was very clear that a controlled ditching in the Hudson was possible. In these circumstances the pilot's timely decision to ditch in the Hudson - something that comes across very clearly in the radio transmissions - was entirely correct. He could almost certainly save the lives of most of the passengers in a ditching, while an attempt to get back to the field would have put all of them (and others on the ground) at great risk. He had but little time to make the choice - delay or indecision would certainly have been fatal to all - and it is clear he made, and executed, the right choice.

Denial, indecision and panic are the dangerous psychological reactions at such moments. No one is entirely immune to them, and experienced pilots are particularly aware of this vulnerability. (Indeed the captain himself described the familiar (to me) incredulity that "this is actually happening to me". ) In my experience it is often those who vocally minimize their vulnerability to such risks who are most paralyzed by them when disaster strikes. One hopes in such circumstances that he will be able to recognize and deal with both the natural human reactions and the situation. It is clear to me that the Captain of the US Air aircraft did both.

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Thanks, George.

I have no idea of what devils are at work on this guy to start this thread...and I have even less idea of what devils are at work to get him to maintain his position rather than simply throw in his cards...

...but obviously well-reasoned exposition like yours is not going to work on him.

Nice that you tried...and did it with such class.

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@Frank Apisa,

Thanks Frank.

The US Air pilot did a good job under harrowing conditions and very likely saved the lives of both his passengers and other innocents on the ground.

It annoys me when some neurotic pipsqueak rises up in unjustified self-importance to nitpick or criticize things about which he clearly demonstrates he has but little understanding.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Be easy on the guy - he is simply jealous of the attention that this pilot is receiving. Billy boy never got any praise for his heroic safe landing that could have endangered a herd of cows grazing nearby thus the insane babbling that is going on.

We should all be sympathetic to this self centered immature boy that equates his flying ability to that of a seasoned experienced pilot that just happened to save 155 passengers and countless others on the ground.

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I am sure that Hawkeye will be shocked and appalled to know that today they had a ceremony and gave the pilot and crew the Key to the City.

It's a travesty!

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Am I correct in thinking that if the plane had been even a few degrees off, it could have easily flipped or skewed into the water badly and killed some or all of them?

If that's the case, I don't care if the guy was trained to do this or not. It was still amazing and he should be hailed as a hero.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@kickycan,

What are they thinking!

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@kickycan,

I've done an excellent job of getting all my reports filed on time and accurate to the SEC - where is my Key to the city!

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Am I correct in thinking that if the plane had been even a few degrees off, it could have easily flipped or skewed into the water badly and killed some or all of them?

If that's the case, I don't care if the guy was trained to do this or not. It was still amazing and he should be hailed as a hero.

Cycloptichorn

Exactly!

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

I am well aware that we are not likely to know for a year or so, but this just adds fuel to the fire re the evaluation that we are engaged in hero worship that is divorced from the facts. The claim is that he is a hero is based upon the results, but he can only be a hero for real if he made the right call. We don't know this yet. I think that all we can say right now is "thank God all survived, and I hope that the pilot did the right thing".

How the hell did he not make the right call. He saved the lives of everyone on board and nobody on the ground was hurt.

It is not for certain that anybody else would have made the same call and had the same result.

You can hope all you want. He DID do the right thing.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
You are even more stupid than your posts portray. NOBODY has claimed that no other pilot or crew could have done the same thing. The fact is... THIS pilot and crew did it

not true, in the first 24 hours there was a lot of reporting that this pilot had been advised by controllers to land at a particular airport. This pilot ignored this advise and then did what he thought was best. There was a tone in the reporting that indicated that background sources had told journalists that they never would have ditch, that that would have done as advised. I can't prove this at the moment but as books come out I am confident that history will record that there is sound reason to believe that most pilots would not have not made the choices that this one did. The fact that he went against conventional wisdom has added to the hero worship edge post event.

Regardless of whatever reporting was done, the fact is that he saved lives and this may not have been the case if he took any other course of action. It doesn't matter what most pilots would have done. That does not make them right.

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@georgeob1,

At this point this whole issue is more the human need for heroes then the flying abilities of a very high hours senior command pilot.

In fact one of his statements is very telling that he would not denial that he is a hero because people need heroes or something to that effect at least.

That adult human beings had a need for heroes is very foreign to myself but then so is the need for a personal god figure that a large percent of the population also seem to have a need for.

I can only wonder if the command pilot happen to be had been a 40 year old grandmother instead of a nice older male father figure if the drive to turn her into a hero would have been so strong.

He is a very good pilot and once more that is to be expected from any senior command pilot flying any of a thousand planes every day in the US alone.

He did not placed himself in harm way for the benefit of others as the firemen in 911 did for example but instead reacted well and up to the level of his decades of training and flying call for when his own life as well as the crew and passengers was on the line.

I am happy over the outcome and he does deserve his 15 minutes of frame however hero he is not by my understanding of the term and the requirement to be a hero.

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@BillRM,

Hey Bill is this you

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_z2t3-2ANqrg/SZDIsO6hL2I/AAAAAAAAA0k/7DPoNwC54nU/s800/gal_lame06.jpg

trying to find someone to bump chests with in agreement about how unfair it is that Sully is being called a hero?

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_z2t3-2ANqrg/SZDIsn0rlmI/AAAAAAAAA0s/YEjYDe2YV9s/s800/gal_lame15.jpg

Face it man. You've exposed your bare arse and people have laughed at your attempt to look cool.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_z2t3-2ANqrg/SZDIsghIJiI/AAAAAAAAA00/D4fHe0srafA/s800/gal_lame25.jpg

Saving face by continuing the fairy tale and blaming others for needing a hero doesn't make it any easier not to laugh at you.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_z2t3-2ANqrg/SZDIs98IJ0I/AAAAAAAAA08/csaRqneGY7s/s800/gal_lame24.jpg

1 Reply

@Butrflynet,

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/Intrepid2/ccf91307.jpg

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@BillRM,

Quote:

did for example but instead reacted well and up to the level of his decades of training and flying call for when his own life as well as the crew and passengers was on the line.

this remains to be seen. Everybody lived but his decision making process and the choices he made are suspect. we will need to see expert evaluation of the events before we can reasonably believe that he did good.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

A dead stick landing at Laguardia might have been possible, however the down side to any misjudgement would likely have been a fatal crash into urban structures. The distance in the chart looks deceptively favorable to the Laguardia option. However it still would have required a 60 plus degree turn and possibly more to correctly line up with the runway. The effect of a turn on reducing the gliding distance is very strong -- a fairly standard disaster scenario in such cases is an unwise attempt to turn back to the point of departure. Moreover, the field landing would have required that the flaps and landing gear be lowered - both actions would have very substantially reduced the aircraft gliding distance - in addition to the turn - and it is not at all clear that the aircraft could have made it.

actually it looks more like 45 degrees, and he would have had a 13 knot tail wind to help get him there, and had he not lost 1200 feet just after the strike he would have had lots of alt/speed to play with. He is a glider pilot so a run way landing should have been relatively easy for him, and he had enough room to do s curves to get down to the correct momentum.

I am not an expert, which is why I say that this needs to be run through the simulator, but I would be shocked if a runway landing at LGA would have been a problem. It would have also been the better odds choice I think. Hopefully the report will get into the choices made, and whether the pilot made errors in judgement or actions. We just don't know.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

He did not placed himself in harm way for the benefit of others as the firemen in 911 did for example but instead reacted well and up to the level of his decades of training and flying call for when his own life as well as the crew and passengers was on the line.

Would this logic work if it were a cop who had decades on the force? If it were a veteran officer thrown suddenly into the middle of a hostage situation, and he "reacted well and up to the level of his decades of training [...] when his own life as well as the [hostages] was on the line," resulting in no casualties where there could have been many. Would he be considered a hero?

1 Reply

@kickycan,

Would this logic work if it were a cop who had decades on the force? If it were a veteran officer thrown suddenly into the middle of a hostage situation, and he "reacted well and up to the level of his decades of training [...] when his own life as well as the [hostages] was on the line," resulting in no casualties where there could have been many. Would he be considered a hero?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting question but I am not sure if I am understanding your question correctly.

The officer is lock into the hostage situation without warning and did not place himself into harm way to start with to rescue citizens?

No actions that he then took to save the situation and the hostages would increase the personal risk to himself then it would seem to be a one to one match.

However if there was actions that he could had taken that would had reduce the risk of harm to himself but place the hostages in greater danger or the other way around then it is not a one to one match.

In the case of the airliner there was no actions that the command pilot could had taken that would had benefit him at the cost to his crew or passengers chances of survival.

They was all lock into the same metal tube traveling at a few hundred miles an hour and everyone was at roughly the same risk.

The very rear passengers was more then likely at somewhat greater risk of harm due to the need to drag the tail of the plane in the water first to reduce the speed before the main body of the plane contact the water but that is a minor factor that the pilot could not do anything about in any case.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

Your grammar and syntax aren't much to brag about either.

The only thing remarkable about the thread and your posts is your persistence in passing judgement about things of which you are so obviously ignorant.

Why am I not the least bit surprised to see such a cheap shot come from you, George?

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@Intrepid,

Quote:

If it wasn't entertaining to watch your poor command of the English language ...

Another cheap shot; come on, Intrepid, please grow up.

1 Reply

Flight 1549 praise is being over done.

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