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Is Peace out of Reach? Has peace in the Middle East become nothing more than a pipe dream?

 
 
Reply Mon 26 Jan, 2009 09:51 pm
CBS 60 Minutes on peace prospects in the middle east. Well worth watching.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 8 • Views: 2,101 • Replies: 26
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 06:19 am
@Robert Gentel,
Looks like apartheid to me already. Israelis are allowed more water than Arabs? Israeli only roads? Can only get nastier as Arabs become more numerous....especially with the fundamentalist beliefs of the settlers and the anger of the Palestinians.

And I agree with the former mayor who said you can't unscramble the egg...or, it would take an utterly secure and quite heroic Israeli government to move the settlers out and attempt to do so. I am remembering the scenes when a limited number of settlers were removed some years ago. Very scarring to a country with the awful history of so much of Israel's populace.

And, like the ex-mayor and the settler woman said, would the army enforce such a removal?

This looks more like settlers moving west into Indian territory, and, although there were occasions when THOSE settlers were forced by the army to withdraw, their taking over of the land was inexorable.

Can you see an Israeli government feeling tough enough to force the settlers out?

What about when Arabs outnumber Israelis in Israel, as seems set to happen?


That was an interesting program to see on US TV...or it seems so to me. Is there much that is not solidly pro-Israel on mass market television.

Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 06:29 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:
Can you see an Israeli government feeling tough enough to force the settlers out?


Any final status negotiation is going to be polemic enough in Israel that I don't think it's viable to move any of the entrenched settlements. This has been recognized for a while now, and negotiations have been based on the 1967 borders but with the involvement of land-swaps to compensate for certain settlements.

The video touched on it briefly, but the land is being strategically settled for the purpose of attempting to deny a Palestinian state, and is thusly strategic in land selection as well. So what I think is needed from Israel is a bold land-swap that gives Palestinians strategically significant land.

Another possible solution is to simply let settlers remain, and tell them that they will be living in Palestine. There's a lot of problems with this, as the settlers are often violent with Palestinians and some Palestinians would certainly consider violence against them as well, so what settlements can be removed should be, and otherwise Israel should offer reasonable exchanges for the land that settlers have taken.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 06:42 am
@Robert Gentel,
Yeah....interesting to see how settlers would react if told they were on their own. I wonder if it would repeat the violence of the early years after WW II?

Where would you see land being that Israel would swap with the west bank Palestinians?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 09:43 am
The question of whether the settlers go or stay...or questions of water or roads...or any of the other questions raised here...I think are besides the point.

Peace, in my opinion, is out of reach.

Anyone who thinks that getting "the settlers" out of the West Bank...will lead to a Palestinian State...or that the formation of a Palestinian State will lead to anything remotely resembling "peace" between these two parties...is, in my opinion, dreaming a pipe dream.

So long as a state of Israel exists in that area...and any Arabs are alive on the peninsula...in my opinion, there will never be anything remotely resembling peace.

My answers to your questions are: Yes, peace is out of reach so long as the state of Israel exists there and Arabs live there also...and...

...yes, peace is a pipe dream in the Middle East so long as a state of Israel exists there and Arabs live there also.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 09:44 am
If you missed 60 Minutes on Ssunday 1/26/09, watch the portion on why Israel won't agree to a two state solution. You get the visual reality of Israel's goal of taking over more land. Disgusting, and really damages my long support of Israel.

Video:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4752358n

BBB
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 10:16 am
what Frank said.
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Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 10:20 am
I've come to believe it is hopeless. Both sides have become such hard asses, and are so full of hate, that I can't see any compromise being accepted. It might have been solvable a few decades ago, but now it's the devil's stalemate. I think it will eventually lead to large, radioactive craters throughout the Middle East.
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Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 12:24 pm
What is needed is a solution "outside the box," so to speak. Perhaps, with a national DNA test, it could be proven that many Palestinean/Israeli Arabs are really descended from the Hebrews. Now that would add a bit of chaos to the stew. The problem in my opinion is that two similar religions are antagonistic. Nothing racial is going on, in my opinion.

That is why when I read posts by people, mostly raised in a Christian family, I do get a chuckle, since here is one more religion throwing its opinion into the mix. It is all about religions, not race, I believe.
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 02:56 pm
@Foofie,
So then, do you think that Palestinians could just convert to Judaism and we could have a one state solution? Why or why not?
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 03:01 pm
To answer the question, I think a two state solution is very nearly out of reach because of the strategic settling. I like what Robert said about land swaps with strategically significant land -- that's a possibility. A one state solution is almost unimaginable yet demographically unstoppable without a Palestinian state or massive ethnic cleansing.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 03:25 pm
@FreeDuck,
Or mebbe centuries of **** and killing, like Northern Ireland...well, Ireland, really...then peace?
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 03:29 pm
@dlowan,
Yep, maybe.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:10 pm
@dlowan,
It's already been almost a century since they've been fighting. It seems they're well on their way.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:12 pm
@InfraBlue,
Not even close. The state of Israel only came into existence in 1947. The English first invaded Ireland in 1167. Henry claimed to be the overlord of Ireland in 1169. Nevertheless, after more than 800 years, they finally worked out a settlement.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:20 pm
@Setanta,
So...round about 2748?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:27 pm
@InfraBlue,
Actually, the Jews and Arabs of that area have gotten along RELATIVELY peacefully for almost 2000 years. Only when the Zionist movement started talking about a Jewish state in the region did things go south.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:31 pm
@dlowan,
The eternal optimist.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:31 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Word . . .
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2009 04:43 pm
@Setanta,
I may regret this...but...

...huh???
0 Replies
 
 

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