Naughty Pants take two

Forums: Parenting And Childcare, Behavior, 7 Year Old, Hitting
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This is going to get rambly because I don't know what's what right now, so bear with me.

I'm sick in the heart. My little Ducklet, now seven, is having issues. She hits. I can't tell how much, but her teacher has been working with her in the classroom on counting to 10 before reacting. I think it gets better, then something happens. She doesn't seem to have any close friends, and they are all boys right now with one or two exceptions.

We have a neighbor boy who is in her class and who is friends with her. They have played together at my house and I never saw any issues. Duckie wanted to play over at his house so we made a play date this weekend. But the day before the play date the little boy's mom emailed me to tell me that her son told her that Ducklet hits him a lot and that she hit him in the privates, and that he didn't want her to come over unless she promised not hit. Even though I knew she had issues with her temper, I was surprised by this because this boy is her friend and she seems to adore him. So I talked to Ducklet about it. She claimed hitting him in the privates was an accident (I wasn't born yesterday). I told her that she couldn't beat up on her friends or she wouldn't have any and she said "that's why nobody wants to be my friend". My heart broke into a thousand pieces. I said, honey, you're going to have to learn to control your temper or you will be very lonely. She said, "I already am lonely." Major heart breakage on that one. We talked and talked about why she thinks she hits, etc... but I still don't completely understand the problem. She vowed to do her best to keep her hands to herself and be kind to her friend, so I passed that on to his mom and she said ok.

Well, the playdate ended about a half hour early because she yelled some nasty things at and kicked her friend. She apologized after, but now I have an email in my inbox from her mom that I just can't bring myself to read.

Help us figure this thing out.

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Is she angry? What leads up to the hitting? What sets her off?

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Oh poor Duckie! She can't control her emotions that well yet and frankly it's
hard at that age, getting restrictions left and right from teachers and peers alike.
I remember, around that age, my daughter was acting up too. No hitting,
but she was quite bossy and belligerent. We enrolled her in martial arts classes
and this helped tremendously. Also, we restricted any sugar intake to the
weekends only.

Hang in there, Freeduck, it will get better.

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@eoe,

eoe wrote:

Is she angry? What leads up to the hitting? What sets her off?

Yeah. Not all the time, mind you.

I've never seen what happens with her friends, but with her brother it's usually in response to a perceived injustice on his part. He says something mean or won't let her play with something and she hits him and calls him some name.

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@FreeDuck,

Tough one for both of you. She wants to have friends and self-control but doesn't; you want her to have friends, a positive self-image, and be a happy kid.

Is she barely seven or closer to eight?

If I remember right 6.5 to 7.5 is typically a difficult age for social relationships and temper. Older 7s tend to calm down and gain more self-control. There are no absolutes, of course, and if Ducklet has on-going struggles socially then there may be some real behavioral issues that go beyond age.

How does she get along with Duckie? Do they play quietly together or mostly wrestle?

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@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

Oh poor Duckie! She can't control her emotions that well yet and frankly it's
hard at that age, getting restrictions left and right from teachers and peers alike.
I remember, around that age, my daughter was acting up too. No hitting,
but she was quite bossy and belligerent. We enrolled her in martial arts classes
and this helped tremendously. Also, we restricted any sugar intake to the
weekends only.

Hang in there, Freeduck, it will get better.

Thanks for the sympathy, CJane. Ducklet does take karate but, frankly, I think this is making it worse.

This is a slow time for physical activity, which she needs a lot of. That could have something to do with it. She just seems to be all of a sudden unsocialized, which wasn't always the case. And I keep thinking that there's something up with having mostly boy friends.

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@JPB,

She just turned 7. She and Duckie are either best of friends or in a fight to the death, depending on the time of day.

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@FreeDuck,

Yep, I agree with JPB that this was a really tough age. I talked at the time about "satanic sixes," I was exaggerating of course but it was that six to early seven stage that was tough (hit different kids at different times in that window).

As in, I think that the recent issues could have more to do with a developmental stage than any specific catalyst (as in why she seemed "socialized" then but not now).

From my experience with this it really hit girls harder than boys -- sozlet had a bunch of Major Dramas with her friends around here, and got kind of annoyed with girls in general.

I wonder if Ducklet has been experiencing some early mean-girl stuff and instead of responding in kind, she's being more... direct?... with her own anger. That's pure speculation, just a hmm.

I know this must be terribly hard to deal with as a mom. I'm sure you guys will figure it out though...

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*sigh* I used to be a hitter too.

I don't know why. It made me feel....powerful. Maybe Duckie is feeling powerless or somehow not as good as her peers and hitting is her way of making herself bigger. I used it to exert power over my friends. I didn't beat them up or anything but I did punch or smack occasionally, just because. I did grow out of it, but not until Junior High (probably 7th grade).

I don't think that this means that Duckie is going to be a bully or that she's a "bad kid" or that she has problems.

Ask her if she does it because it makes her feel better about herself.

You might be suprised.

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@FreeDuck,

Yeah, that's what I guessed. I'll quote a bit from "Your Six Year Old" by Ames and Ilg. Keep in mind that six here is 6.5 - 7.5

Quote:

Other children mean a lot to Six-year-olds, but again the nature of Six makes it hard for him to get on well with others. Two children together may make out very well, at least for a time, but three tend to make trouble.

....

Friends mean a lot to the child of this age, and some make friends (even though they can't always keep them) quite easily.

...

But much an any playtime tends to be rather stormy. Children of this age tend to be very aggressive both verbally and physically. They are also quarrelsome, belligerent, boisterous, argumentative, excitable, emotional. Since Six always wants to win, any kind of competitive game may give trouble, and the loser tends to go away mad. Six wants to boss and to win. this does not make him an easy friend to get along with. It is not enough for him to win two games out of three; he wants to win all three.

...

The Six-year-old is all too often rough in play. He threatens to go home, quarrels, calls names, pushes, fights. He definitely complains, as noted, that others are cheating and don't follow the rules. ... Fortunately, both grudges and memories tend to be short, and friendships are often resumed on a day following tremendous complaint and conflict.

...

For all the conflict that may occur, it can truly be said of the typical Six-year-old that he has trouble living with his friends, but that he definitely can't live without them.

Now... that paints a pretty wild picture and some Sixes are MORE six than others. If Ducklet tends to be on the outer edge of out-of-bounds to begin with then this could be a very difficult stage for her.

How does she get along with her teacher this year? I remember from Take One that there were some issues with the teacher. This one seems more supportive. Can she give you any feedback on how Ducklet gets along on the playground? Is she isolated, plays one-on-one, or in a group?

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Oops, I meant the Ducklet, not Duckie. Wink

You know what I meant.

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@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

but now I have an email in my inbox from her mom that I just can't bring myself to read.

I was certain that this email was going to say something like "never let your daughter play with my son again" and I was all prepared to feel rejected for Ducklet. Instead it was an acknowledgment that no child is a perfect angel and an invitation to try again with perhaps a little more supervision. People can be very nice sometimes.

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@FreeDuck,

ahhhh, that's nice.

Good for her.

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

From my experience with this it really hit girls harder than boys -- sozlet had a bunch of Major Dramas with her friends around here, and got kind of annoyed with girls in general.

I wonder if Ducklet has been experiencing some early mean-girl stuff and instead of responding in kind, she's being more... direct?... with her own anger. That's pure speculation, just a hmm.

I know this must be terribly hard to deal with as a mom. I'm sure you guys will figure it out though...

Yeah, she's definitely turned off of most girls -- her cousin and one neighbor girl are the exception. I don't know for a fact that this problem and that are related, it just seems like I should be paying attention to both.

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@FreeDuck,

Oh good!!

Supervision might be good too to try to see for yourself more of what's going on...

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@Bella Dea,

Bella Dea wrote:

*sigh* I used to be a hitter too.

I don't know why. It made me feel....powerful. Maybe Duckie is feeling powerless or somehow not as good as her peers and hitting is her way of making herself bigger. I used it to exert power over my friends. I didn't beat them up or anything but I did punch or smack occasionally, just because. I did grow out of it, but not until Junior High (probably 7th grade).

I don't think that this means that Duckie is going to be a bully or that she's a "bad kid" or that she has problems.

Ask her if she does it because it makes her feel better about herself.

You might be suprised.

I think she does it to get their attention and to exert power. Sometimes in situations where she truly is being bothered or picked on but sometimes just when someone is ignoring her or not paying her enough attention.

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@JPB,

Thank you so much for posting that. It's quite a relief. I have to admit that it's this recent episode that sort of jerked me to attention. She's always been very physical but I never thought of her as abusive and I certainly hadn't thought that this behavior would leave her isolated. It's the friend thing that worries me most here.

This teacher is very supportive and much more structured than her last teacher and Ducklet has been thriving in her classroom. Though she does seem to have this problem at school, the teacher never brought it up. I mentioned her behavior at the first parent teacher conference because it had been such an issue last year, and she said she observed Ducklet's temper flare up in the classroom but that they working on it using the count-to-ten rule and that it seemed to help. And again, she only hits boys, apparently, but that could just be because those are her only friends.

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Counting to 10 doesn't really work with kids that well, but I remember that
my daughter was to draw smilies when she felt that she's getting angry - especially at school. So she sat down and started drawing smilies, sometimes
50 of them, until she smiled herself again.

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Oh, I’m sorry. That makes me want to cry. Poor thing. Hopefully it is just a sort term thing. What does her teacher think? I am sure she knows what is typical at that age.

If it makes you feel any better (misery loves company sort of thing). My 6+ year old has been acting up quite a bit lately. Fortunately for me not at school, but she is a monster at home and with me. The other day I was out with my girls at a kids game room. I had my back to them (but right next to them). I turned around and there are my two girls rolling on the floor " the 6 year old pounding on her older sister with her little fists flying. The older girl just lying there taking the punches. I was horrified.

Reading about the physical activity " is there some indoor gym or something you could take her to? And yes boys do tend to play rougher than girls. I wonder if it is being younger. I know that my younger girl hits more than my older ever did " maybe to keep up with the older one.

And I’m very glad you have some reasonable and understanding friends.

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Mo was a big time hitter. Major league.

His kindergarten teacher's aide taught him to:

Put your hands in your pocket.
Tuck in your chin.
Look up at the person -- stare at them for three seconds.
Turn around and walk away.

She would practice this with him at school and I would practice it with him at home.

According to Ms. L. this lets the other person know that you really want to clobber them so they'd better watch out, but that you're really just too cool to bother with it.

I don't know if the technique is workable for Ducklet but it worked for Mo.

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Naughty Pants take two

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