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Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu advocates carpet bombing Gaza

 
 
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 03:04 pm
Eliyahu advocates carpet bombing Gaza

Quote:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlimage&blobheader=image%2Fjpeg&blobheadername1=Cache-Control&blobheadervalue1=max-age%3D420&blobkey=id&blobtable=JPImage&blobwhere=1176152817571&cachecontrol=5%3A0%3A0+*%2F*%2F*&ssbinary=true

All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.

According to Jewish war ethics, wrote Eliyahu, an entire city holds collective responsibility for the immoral behavior of individuals. In Gaza, the entire populace is responsible because they do nothing to stop the firing of Kassam rockets.



Quote:

"If they don't stop after we kill 100, then we must kill a thousand," said Shmuel Eliyahu. "And if they do not stop after 1,000 then we must kill 10,000. If they still don't stop we must kill 100,000, even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop."

In the letter, Eliyahu quoted from Psalms. "I will pursue my enemies and apprehend them and I will not desist until I have eradicated them."


I post this because only one side's religious fanatics get attention.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 7 • Views: 2,901 • Replies: 23
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 03:10 pm
It should surprise no one who pays any attention to human affairs that there are religious loonies on the lunatic fringe of every religion. However, i suspect you are right that most people focus on Muslim religious loonies, and don't think that there might be the same coming from the other side.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 03:31 pm
@Robert Gentel,
And he's hardly the only one. There has been a lot of comparisons of Gazans to biblical Amalekites

Quote:
Annihilate the Amalekites from the beginning to the end. Kill them and wrest them from their possessions. Show them no mercy. Kill continuously, one after the other. Leave no child, plant, or tree. Kill their beasts, from camels to donkeys.


http://jonathanturley.org/2008/04/12/leading-rabbi-accused-of-suggesting-that-all-palestinians-shoulb-be-killed/
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 03:45 pm
http://www.jerusalemites.org/image/041-06-07interior.jpg
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 03:49 pm
@Zippo,
People like you are a big reason why legitimate criticism of Israel is rare. Sane people are worried about being mistaken for racist nuts.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 03:54 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Too bad there's merit to his position. The similarities between the treatment of European Jews, and modern Palestinians by the descendants of those same oppressed peoples, cannot be ignored.

One would think that people who had unfairly been collectively labeled in a negative fashion would refrain from doing that themselves, but unfortunately that does not seem to be the case. Just look at the supporters of Israel's actions on A2K; the Pals are 'butchers' and 'animals,' all of them, and like the rabbi above, they believe that there is no moral burden in their deaths whatsoever. Sounds mighty familiar...

Cycloptichorn
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 03:59 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
The Nazis did a lot of things that every day people do, like eat and breathe. But comparisons to Nazis always leave out some key things that made them notorious like gas chambers and the like.

It becomes meaningless when so liberally applied.
Zippo
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 04:03 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
legitimate criticism of Israel


legitimate criticism of Israel = anti-semitism.
You got a long way to go, buddy!

John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt: The Israel Lobby = legitimate criticism of Israel

According to the world media specially in the US ... it's ........

Yes, It's Anti-Semitic

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/04/AR2006040401282.html

0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 04:09 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

The Nazis did a lot of things that every day people do, like eat and breathe. But comparisons to Nazis always leave out some key things that made them notorious like gas chambers and the like.

It becomes meaningless when so liberally applied.


Yeah, I know. But it all depends on how the end results work out. The modern Jews don't use gas chambers, but are their end goals really all that different? It seems that the destruction of the Palestinian presence in the region is the ultimate goal, whether it be through extermination; starving them out; or forcing them to flee the area. This was essentially the goals of the Nazi party at the beginning, and over time things got more and more twisted; sort of like what we see in the ME today.

I agree that not all Jews and even the majority of Israelis don't believe in this, but the ones who control the government? It is quite obvious that this is the end goal. Once again this is extremely similar to the Nazis. They even used the same methods: demonization of an entire people, uniting the normal (and non-prejudiced) populace against an external threat, justifying ever-greater atrocities in the name of 'your safety.'

I wouldn't use the comparison if it were not for the intimate involvement of the Nazis with the creation of both Israel and the modern Zionist movement and mindset. It would seem that some of the worst qualities of their former oppressors have been co-opted by this group. At the end of the day it is quite sad, really.

Cycloptichorn
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 04:11 pm
@Robert Gentel,
A few days ago,Chief Rabbi of Safed Shmuel Eliyahu, son of the above mentioned former chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, likened Hamas to Haman in the biblical story of Ester and to the Nazis.

Source: JP report IDF Rabbinate uses scriptures to boost soldiers' morals
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 04:14 pm
Quote:
I agree that not all Jews and even the majority of Israelis don't believe in this


I disagree

‘Marriage to an Arab is national treason’

Recent poll reveals steep rise in racist views against Arabs in Israel; many participants feel hatred, fear when overhearing Arabic, 75 percent don’t approve of shared apartment buildings

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3381978,00.html
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 04:15 pm
@Zippo,
Zippo wrote:

Quote:
I agree that not all Jews and even the majority of Israelis don't believe in this


I disagree

‘Marriage to an Arab is national treason’

Recent poll reveals steep rise in racist views against Arabs in Israel; many participants feel hatred, fear when overhearing Arabic, 75 percent don’t approve of shared apartment buildings

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3381978,00.html


This is what happens when your leaders perpetuate a strategy of demonizing and dehumanizing your enemies; it begins to have an effect on the populace as a whole...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 04:16 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
The modern Jews don't use gas chambers, but are their end goals really all that different?


Yes, they are. Sure, there are similarities, just like there are similarities with just about anything but there are key differences.

Despite the calls to forcibly transfer Palestinians, and even the lunatics advocating their extermination this doesn't come anywhere near what the Nazi's did.

You are comparing "modern Jews" to Nazis when only a small lunatic fringe have opinions that come close. This is a world of a difference from Nazi history. It's like comparing "modern Americans" to Nazis just because some advocate turning the mideast into a parking lot.

Quote:
I agree that not all Jews and even the majority of Israelis don't believe in this, but the ones who control the government?


Seriously, even at Israel's most right-wing fringe in leadership there's nothing that compares to Nazis.

Quote:
It is quite obvious that this is the end goal. Once again this is extremely similar to the Nazis.


You breathe extremely similar to Nazis.

Quote:
They even used the same methods: demonization of an entire people, uniting the normal (and non-prejudiced) populace against an external threat, justifying ever-greater atrocities in the name of 'your safety.'


Americans did this as well in WW2, so I guess by your standards America was like Nazis as well.

Quote:
It would seem that some of the worst qualities of their former oppressors have been co-opted by this group. At the end of the day it is quite sad, really.


It's sad how fecklessly the word "Nazi" is used as well. It's a reductionism based on superficial perspectives of history.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 04:22 pm
@Robert Gentel,
You seem to believe that the 'final solution' to the Jewish problem in Nazi Germany, including mass murder and gassing them, was a well-known and socially approved act. To the best of my knowledge it was not. The 'nazis' were not a uniform group of horrible people; they were a small group of horrible people who controlled a country whose populace was, though hostile towards the Jews, not inherently evil and in no way was responsible for the worst horrors of the Holocaust.

Saying that it's appropriate to kill a million people in a city? That there is no moral burden whatsoever in doing so? Yeah, I'd say that compares to the Nazis pretty well. Continually comparing your enemies (which you forced off of their land some time ago and currently keep inside a country-sized prison) to animals and worse, not caring if they live or die? Yeah. Compares to Nazis.

And yes, the US compares to Nazis sometimes as well, when we interred Japanese for no reason, in other actions. Not everything the Nazis did was the Ultimate Evil. Much of it was merely an efficient war machine. It is the attitudes and promulgation of hate from the top of one's government that is the true comparison...

Quote:

Despite the calls to forcibly transfer Palestinians, and even the lunatics advocating their extermination this doesn't come anywhere near what the Nazi's did.


No? Why not? In the end, the Palestinians will be forcefully transferred - nice term there - or dead. There is no material difference between this and the plans of the Nazi party, who merely carried out those same calls. We even have top religious officials proclaiming that there is nothing wrong with it at all.

The only fallacy of the comparison? The Jewish state hasn't gotten around to committing the acts that their leaders wish to commit. There is a clear arc of increasing violence and decreasing tolerance amongst the political and social leaders in Israel, and it's troubling to say the least.

Cycloptichorn
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 04:32 pm
Robert Gentel,
It's quite simple- both (nazis & zionazis) groups aim was/is to ethnically cleanse a people from specific Religious background, by any means and at any cost. To the Zionist Jews of Israel the Palestanians are a menace, just like how Jews were considered by the Germans.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 05:34 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
You seem to believe that the 'final solution' to the Jewish problem in Nazi Germany, including mass murder and gassing them, was a well-known and socially approved act.


If it wasnt well known, then how do you explain the fact that many of the death camps were close to cities, and that the German people that worked in the factories knew that there were prisoners of the death camps working in them also?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 05:38 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
You seem to believe that the 'final solution' to the Jewish problem in Nazi Germany, including mass murder and gassing them, was a well-known and socially approved act.


If it wasnt well known, then how do you explain the fact that many of the death camps were close to cities, and that the German people that worked in the factories knew that there were prisoners of the death camps working in them also?


The German government billed these as 'temporary' or 'relocation' camps for the most part. And a willing - and afraid - populace swallowed up that explanation. It wasn't until the final year or so of the war that they began truly slaughtering in earnest and the pretense fell away - too late for those who might oppose such things to do anything about it.

'Not well known' doesn't mean 'completely secret.' Let us not forget that talking about such things could bring a squad of SS to your front door; word just doesn't get around inside a fascist society the way it does a democracy.

Have you studied this period of German history in depth?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 05:48 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Thanks for posting this, Robert.

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 05:55 pm
Yes, thanks for posting it, and thanks for enduring the extremes of irrationality represented by Zippo on one side and Cyclo on the other . . . or are they that different? (That was ironic humor for those who need the hint.)
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 05:57 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Yes, thanks for posting it, and thanks for enduring the extremes of irrationality represented by Zippo on one side and Cyclo on the other . . . or are they that different? (That was ironic humor for those who need the hint.)


I'm extremely irrational?

A new height of accomplishment! Laughing

Cycloptichorn
 

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